I don’t think we were meant to understand what she was thinking. But they showed us her face two or three times for a reason.
Oops…misread. Comment witdrawn.
Tywin is extremely wise and his integrity is impeccable. Moreover, he serves a greater good, not only his family line, but the kingdom itself. I’m a minority of one, but I do give him more moral credit than you guys.
I mean, “more moral credit” doesn’t mean he’s a good guy. He doesn’t have an ounce of kindness. He doesn’t care about anyone’s suffering. So he’s not good.
But there’s a kind of moral soundness to him. He’s not just “out for number one,” and the ideals (yes, ideals!) that guide him are “good-in-theory” enough to make him feel like a moral character to me, not an im- or a-moral one.
Okay, but they certainly aren’t going to listen to Theon - even if he was firing on all cylinders. Then again, I guess Ramsey doesn’t know this.
Hm…Still sketchy of Bronn…
Thanks.
Yes, I agree and that’s an interesting arc you pointed out.
Is that the group that Arya was briefly with? The one with the guy who’s died something like 6 times?
I wonder if he’s going to act like his old confident self… I’m also wondering how that’s going to work out with Yara seeing him and declaring him dead.
Bronn didn’t tell Jamie that he wasn’t allowed to visit Tyrion, Pod told Tyrion that Bronn wasn’t allowed to visit him.
Tywin is a cast iron sonuvabitch…but he makes the trains run on time. He may be the most capable person available to run the kingdom, other than Tyrion.
Did you see this pic from the President’s speech at the recent White House Correspondents Assn. dinner?: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/51/The_Westeros_Wing.jpg
He is selfish and cares little for others outside his Family name but every awful thing he does is to further his power. Joffrey would torture someone because he liked to see someone scream in pain; Tywin would do it f it mean it would better the position of his family. That doesn’t make a difference to the person being tortured but it is a difference.
I guess I should not have said Tywin isn’t immoral but I believe is is definitely amoral. Morality doesn’t matter at all to him.
I was thinking about how ruinously expensive it’s been for Tywin to acquire and keep the throne and how expensive it’s going to be for Stannis to fight for it. So what’s the payoff of becoming the ruler of Westeros? Perhaps if one can stay on the throne without active opposition/rebellion, one can demand regular payments from the various castles in Westeros?
Maester Luwyn a.k.a. The Grandpa None Of Us Had, Drogo, Syrio Forell, Cat, Lord Mormont, Robert…
I… what ? Talysa wasn’t all the rage but after Ned’s death Robb pretty much became “The Protagonist” to most people who still hadn’t grokked the show they were watching. Now I guess Jon’s the one.
… you become the ruler. There’s a throne attached, although it’s not very comfy. But the crown’s bling as hell !
Seriously though, why have ambitious folks ever sought power ? I mean, you couldn’t get me to run for President for a big clock. I simply do not get people who might even want to, let alone want it enough to even try. But some do. More power and grey hair to them.
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He is selfish and cares little for others outside his Family name but every awful thing he does is to further his power. Joffrey would torture someone because he liked to see someone scream in pain; Tywin would do it f it mean it would better the position of his family. That doesn’t make a difference to the person being tortured but it is a difference.
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Well, at the risk of Godwinning the thread, I don’t think Hitler cared all that much that Europe suffered *very *much, as long as it meant a better position for Germany, y’know ?
Didn’t both happen? I do remember Pod telling Tyrion Bronn wasn’t allowed to see him now that you mention it, but I also remember the scene where Bronn and Jamie discussed seeing Tyrion. Something like Bronn says “You haven’t been to see Tyrion yet?” And Jamie replies along the lines of “Have you?” and Bronn answers “They won’t let me, but you’re his brother.” Something like that, I think.
I got the impression that the camera kept cutting to show Margaery because she knows her grandmother was the one who actually poisoned Joffrey (as we learned a couple weeks ago) and was concerned that the Tyrells might somehow be implicated once she saw that the necklace had been found that held the poison. She also was probably pretty uncomfortable at watching what she knew to be an innocent man being railroaded to a likely execution for a crime that her family committed. While Margaery has always wanted to be the Queen, she seems to have a decent heart (if somewhat conniving), so was likely conflicted watching the trial - she does not want her grandmother implicated, but she also does not want to see an innocent man die for her grandmother’s crime.
None of which I’d argue (Ned aside, as I’ve mentioned) were anywhere close to Tyrion-levels of popularity.
Well…Who is?
I’m not sure i agree, i think for most people after they realized it was never about Ned the protagonists became Tyrion, Dany and maybe Jon. Robb would be a distant fifth after Arya.
That’s kind of my point.
With that said, I’d place Arya up there too as one I’d truly be surprised if they perished anytime soon for similar reasons.
I’ll paraphrase Tyrion: we’re not questioning Tywin’s integrity. We’re denying its existence. But I suppose it depends on what you mean by integrity. If you mean he’s a moral man who tries to do the honorable thing and deals with everyone fairly, an example for others, then it’s totally absurd. If you mean he has not been divided into multiple pieces, you are correct. (Then again, that may be temporary. It’s Game of Thrones.) Tywin is rational and logical except where Tyrion is concerned. He’s flexible. He never deviates from his goals and for the most part he’s unapologetic about what he’s doing, and those could all be viewed as positives. But I wouldn’t call that integrity. It’s more like a combination of determination and not giving a crap. Ruthless, I think, is the best word. He has not one ruth.
He doesn’t give a fuck for the kingdom. His family just happens to live there. To the extent his actions benefit their subjects, that’s because if the peasants are starving or the Iron Bank doesn’t get paid or the nobles get too angry, his family will get overthrown and murdered.
I’ve been saying for a while that Tywin’s perspective is understandable in this medieval world. He’s right to put his family first, to be reluctant to trust anybody - I mean, if you were Tywin and you knew how untrustworthy you were, would you trust anyone? - and to always take the long view and not get too satisfied with himself. He’s living in a brutal place where the strong take what they can and most people have no sympathy for the weak. So if he wants his family to be safe, they need to have as much power as they possibly can. Anything else and they will ultimately be at the mercy of somebody else.
Yes.
It’ll be interesting. I’m not sure if Yara will be there, but it does make sense for her to retreat there.
What, all that power isn’t enough? You get to live in luxury when most people are dirt farmers and goatherds, so that’s nice. And yes, you take money from the nobles. The deal is that you let them stay in power and they pay you tribute in return. That’s where the money for the castle and the nice clothes and the name day tournaments comes from. If you want the Iron Bank to back your rebellion, they make you a loan and all of Westeros pitches in to pay it back. If you had so much money you could fund a whole rebellion on your own, you wouldn’t need the Iron Bank.
Well, I’d even argue that Tyrion’s popularity is higher than Ned’s ever was. Ned’s death served an important series-long point to start the whole ball rolling. Tyrion’s death at this point would have fewer meaningful consequences than his survival ever would.
I think Tywin is a moral person in his own right, but as the hand of the king as well as the patriarch of the lanisters, morality is a luxury. I am thinking of when he set up shop at Harrenhall and put a stop to the torture of the smiths, and then the continuation of Arya’s education when she ended up being his cup bearer.
It seems to me that what he has done, is to setup a trial for Tyrion, and stacking the deck with Shae, that pushes Tyrions buttons, who then opts for a trial by combat. So the Champion is going to be none other than Mountain, Tywin has this little political problem with Oberon , who wants revenge. If the mountain wins, then he sweeps both Tryion and Oberon off the board, while keeping his promise to Jaime, since it was not Tywins “fault” that Tryion went over board, and at the same time keeps Cersei happy, not that I think that he thought twice about what she thinks, but its a freebie.
If Oberon wins, his honor is satisfied, and Tryion gets to live a while longer, long term, no idea what might become of that.
But I like how Tywin is using problems to solve other problems
Declan