Game of Thrones 7.01 "Dragonstone" 7/16/17 [Show Discussion]

Travel times don’t make sense in the show but for the show.

Other improbabilities or impossibilities are worse - from my pov - because they unexpectedly violate established rules of the AGoT-universe, like Arya’s stabbing and her acrobatic feats while fleeing from the terminator called Waif but your point bothers me, too.

Great story. I knew Prof. William A. Moffett, mentioned in that story, at Oberlin.

We saw him travel to Dorne, where he met Olenna Tyrell and Ellaria Sand. So didn’t he travel back with them and their forces?

Introducing foreign species into an environment always work so well. Just ask Australia.

Like those pens banks used to have.

Oh, and Benjen is the rightful heir of the North.

If the walkers are as invasive as Oryctolagus cuniculus, Westeros is a lost cause.

Incidentally, we don’t know if the white walkers are purely an artificially (magically) created new “species” or if something/someone similar evolved naturally in a magical environment and the Children used their means to imitate the natural process.

The same is true for dragons, of course.

Nope. The Vow of the Brothers of the Night’s Watch (show-version):

Benjen has given up all claims when he decided to become a man in black.

I imagine we just saw Dany swoop by Dorne to pick them up on the way to Dragonstone. Getting to Dragonstone from Essos requires going right by Dorne. There’s no reason for an entire armada to sail halfway around the world and back when Dany, the Unsullied, and the Dothraki already had the Iron fleet to get them to Westeros. I think the scene at the end of season 6, with everyone already together, was supposed to take place after the stop in Dorne, not in Slaver’s Bay at the beginning of the trip.

Even if the Night’s Watch vows didn’t take him out of the line of succession, Bran would still be lord of Winterfell over Benjen.

Of course.

Right. The line of succession goes to Ned’s children before his brother. So Benjen would be next only if all of Ned’s legitimate children were dead.

Of course, since Jon Snow was freed of his Night Watch vows by having been killed, then Benjen, since he is also dead (for certain values of “dead”) would also be free of them. :wink:

True, but being dead and brought back as something between human and wight would also disqualify him from being Lord of Winterfell. If all of Ned’s children end up dead (or decline in Bran’s and probably Arya’s case), Jon would be next in line as Lyanna’s son.

Cite? :wink: I doubt there is a specific provision in the laws of inheritance.

Depends on whether being a bastard is seen of less of an impediment as being dead. :wink:

Not if your claim is approved by a kingwho considers such a state of existence preferable to any other.

And there is a good chance that he will rule the North for a while.

Which reminds me, I do hope that the White Walkers are more than just a force that needs to be repelled. I’d be much better if they had a good reason for their actions.

Yeah that was my point. His oath is now null and void, but you’re right, there’s still a legitimate son ahead of him. Would Benjen be next, before the women and the bastard son?

To the best of my knowledge, the women in the senior line (Sansa and Arya) would be next in succession after Bran, and before Benjen. Bastards have no inheritance rights at all, unless they are legitimized.

Dorne is different from the rest of Westeros in practicing strict primogeniture regardless of sex; an older daughter will inherit before a younger son.

I don’t mean to shit on people’s discussions, but if there’s one consistent message of GoT it’s that power comes from power. Ned had a perfectly “legal” piece of paper signed by Robert naming him regent, and Cersei tore it up, because she had the military power behind her. So while it might be an interesting diversion to discuss who is the next “rightful” heir to Winterfell, it matters not at all. What power structure possibly exists that could enforce such a claim?

If Bran shows up and the northerners don’t believe that a cripple should inherit, then he will not inherit, period.

Only if he what happened to him counts as “dying” as well so he can get of the Night’s Watch on the same technicality Jon did. And even then you renounce all your rights before you join, I doubt you get those back.

It does matter. Why could Cersei command those men? Because they thought she had power. Belief in rules and tradition and laws have power.

It all comes back to Varys’ riddle to Tyrion.. Power resides where people believe it resides.

Could be a glamour.

And if Euron truly painted his sails he’s an idiot. What better way for the dragons to be sure which ships they should burn, and which to leave alone in a complicated naval battle?

Good point.

So, are you arguing that Jon - as a bastard - had no rights, so he didn’t renounce them when he joined? But Benjen did? :confused:

The fact is that it goes through all of Ned’s descendants before it goes back a generation to find the next closest.

If they hadn’t been members of the Night’s Watch, and/or dead, and ignoring the issue of legitimacy (and so an entirely theoretical discussion;)), Benjen would be ahead of Jon since Jon’s claim was through Ned and Benjen’s sister Lyanna. Benjen would have inherited ahead of his sister and thus ahead of her son. (If Jon had been Ned’s son he would have inherited ahead of Benjen, again ignoring issues of legitimacy.)