Game of Thrones 7.04 "The Spoils of War" 8/6/2017 [Show discussion only]

I’ve briefly entertained the thought, as well. If I want to try to make sense of it, I can imagine that the alternative history where Bran is not a target for assassination is a world where the chaos sewn by Littlefinger is just enough to start low-level, slow-burning wars and Littlefinger is able to covertly manipulate events to his own end such that all of the five Kingdoms are weakened and Littlefinger ascends to the throne, only to have all of Westeros destroyed by the White Walker army. Bran, somehow seeing that this future can’t be prevented with less chaos as Littlefinger is always able to manipulate things his way, instead opts to create a more chaotic situation, one too chaotic for Littlefinger to control with his machinations. So Bran manipulates the past to arrange his own failed assassination that leads to more chaos, a quicker, more intense war for the throne emerges that Littlefinger struggles to take control of, and eventually the kingdom unites in time to fend off the White Walker army.

But that’s all massive fan-wanking. While it fits into the Branhattan idea, it’s way out there in highly-speculative-land.

Agreed that would be the right thing to do, but I’m not volunteering for the duty.

Going way off on a tangent here, but I think Robert Baratheon in his prime would be one of the few warriors in Westeros who would be a match for The Mountain one on one.

He could match the brute force, and probably has greater skill. Arthur Dayne and Barristan Selmy are in the conversation, and a non-taunting Oberyn Martell. Two-handed Jaime perhaps. Ned would only accept that fight out of necessity, and would have Howland Reed sneak up behind him.

Maybe we’ll see if we can add Arya to the list… though I expect she will team up with the Hound for that fight. One on one on no-one.

The fact that Cat almost died during Bran’s assassination attempt is a significant point against the “Littlefinger planned it” theory.

Littlefinger certainly couldn’t have known who would be in the room when the attempt was made, so the fact that Catelyn was in danger during it doesn’t necessarily imply that he wasn’t responsible.

She wasn’t supposed to be there, according to the assassin.

That also fails the sniff test. She was a mother grieving over her comatose son, for goodness sake, it’s not a stretch of the imagination to guess she might be there. Littlefinger wouldn’t be so stupid as to assume she couldn’t possibly be there, and would have made sure that if she were there, the plan was either aborted, or accomplished without hurting her.

ETA: Though I guess it’s possible he said “don’t hurt her too much” and it actually went off as planned. He claimed to love her, but he certainly wasn’t beyond hurting her a little, considering what he did to Ned.

I thought someone said upthread that the assassination attempt was independent of Bran’s defenestration, and that Littlefinger, assuming he was responsible, was not aware that Bran had been injured already.

(It’s been too long since I saw the episode for me to remember the exact chain of events.)

If something like that ends up being true it will be AWESOME. I’m skeptical, but I’d love one more absolutely massive twist that still fits well into everything we’ve observed so far.

It’s unclear how much time passes between the fall and the attempt, but it seemed like it was a while. I figure the trip back would have been delayed, so a raven most likely would have been sent explaining why the King would be slow to return.

Also, at the time, Littlefinger and Varys worked together on the small council. When Cat went to King’s Landing, they already knew she was coming and about the dagger.

It would explain why an assassin armed with a Valyrian steel dagger struggles to deal with an unarmed woman, maybe he had orders to that effect. Or, if Littlefinger made sure to hire an incompetent assassin to get direwolf’d, Cat’s presence was unforeseen by LF and the assassin not dealing with her is due to aforementioned incompetence.

For a character that appears for like a minute in the first season and isn’t even named, who knew he’d become a topic of discussion 7 seasons in? In season 8 my prediction is Dontos Hollard becomes critically important…somehow.

Not a topic for this show-only thread, but there’s a lot of back story to Ser Dontos and House Hollard out there in other media. It’s entirely possible he becomes important again, but at this point I doubt it.

That is very creative, and it would make a great story. But I thought that the Wall magically kept the White Walkers out until Bran screwed up. So if he can manipulate events in the past, wouldn’t it be a lot easier, and a lot less bloody, for him to let Littlefinger have his fun, and just manipulate himself into not screwing up?

No, it doesn’t. The very fact that the assassin was given information that Cat wouldn’t (or shouldn’t) be there is pretty close to a smoking gun for Littlefinger. There’s no one else that he cares for, and no one else he would have given instructions for an assassin to avoid killing.

But I’m thinking more and more about this Hot Pie theory, as it holds way more water than the stupid Joffrey idea…

I don’t know that we know the Wall failing, assuming it ultimately does fail as we all imagine it must, is definitely because of Bran’s screw-up, but anyway that’s always a problem with time travel stories. Why not just nip Littlefinger’s schemes in the bud? Or change his childhood so he’s a better person that doesn’t place lust for power over people? Why not stop the Mad King from going apeshit while in power and arranging a more orderly succession? Why not prevent the Night King’s creation? Etc., etc. Some things just have to happen for the drama.

Eh, “you weren’t supposed to be here” doesn’t have to mean “kill Bran, but be super careful not to kill Cat, because I love her”. A much simpler explanation is “Kill Bran, don’t kill anyone else to keep things simple”, and the assassin had gotten information (either from whoever hired him, or via bribing a random guard) that Bran would be alone in his bedroom at some particular time. So “you’re not supposed to be here” just means “no one else was supposed to be here”, not Cat specifically.

Thanks for the botched-killing-of-Bran recap, all.

Perhaps he was dictating.

From over the horizon, no less!

I love this! Nicely done.

Something like that keeps nagging at me…Bran told Arya that the Valyrian blade was meant to kill him. Since he has been touched by the Night King, what if he has a bit of White Walker in him now, and could be turned easily due to that connection while still alive, but if he had been stabbed with the Valyrian blade he would be dead even if touched by a WW - like a preventive measure? It may not make sense, and I am having a hard time with the Three Eyed Raven/time continuum/Hodor thing, but I hope as more is revealed it might come together in my head.

Littlefinger knew what the dagger was worth. It is priceless valyrian steel. No way would he have been foolish enough to give it to some twit who would have no idea.