I’m not convinced (though I’m not certain either way). I think there’s a decent possibility that it was rape in the books, even if, through Jaime’s eyes, it seemed consensual.
Did Littlefinger finger the Queen of Thorns? If TV viewers missed that half a second shot of the necklace missing a stone after she gave Sansa her condolences, I don’t know how they’re supposed to know she’s complicit.
The show also made it crystal clear Margery (however it’s spelled) had nothing to do with it. I’m not so sure that was how it was in the books.
Ugh.
Do we ever see Margaery do anything in the books? Most of what we do hear about her is filtered through Cersei, she always felt like a non-character to me.
Here’s a good post-episode interview with the director. It’s fun to see him having the same reactions to the plot even as he’s having to go through the work of directing it.
In retrospect, you are right of course. They did a great job of giving the Unsullied plenty of suspects and not pointing directly to Olenna and the cup, while still having the clues be there if you’re looking. Seeing the crystal go in would have given it all away. But it is a bit of a shame that Cressen’s symptoms don’t match Joff’s. (only a small trickle of blood from his nose, most seemed to be from his mouth, and no coughing of choking). Would have been a nice piece of continuity.
I don’t think we’ll make everyone happy until everyone has their own personal thread. Maybe I’ll start “Game of Thrones discussion for people exactly as spoiled as gonzoron, no more and no less” and see how it goes… 
With respect to the “rape scene”, I am also baffled, especially since they have been setting Jamie up as a much more sympathetic character in the show…for oh about two seasons. If I am charitable, maybe they wanted to show Cercei as objecting to the location rather the act (as in the books) but failed in execution. That’s Tvtropes view.
We will see how this plays out the rest of this season to know exactly where the show is going. Right now I feel like I have to take the path of “failed in execution”. Otherwise, it doesn’t make much sense considering how it was written in the book, the character arc of Jaime in the show and in the books, etc.
Setting aside the character arc implications of Jamie, I do feel intentionally re-writing this scene to be a rape doesn’t make any sense. It isn’t like the book’s version wasn’t just full-on-squick. Incest beside the dead body of your son?!? I mean c’mon… that was pretty awful and gross. The shift to it being a rape just is completely unnecessary to the “EHRMEGERD GROSS” effect.
I can’t understand why they did it either. I’m trying not to whip out the torches quite yet, as we don’t know where this is going, but I’m unhappy. I think the writers don’t think of it as rape, but they didn’t make it as gray an area as the books. And while one could argue that in THIS particular case with THESE TWO particular people might not have been rape (she was reaching for him as she said no, e.g.), I don’t think their intention was to have us examine consent and safe words and the gender dynamics of that particular fictional place through our 21st century lenses. It reeked of “she asked for it,” not an examination of where the line of consent lies.
People have been frothing at the mouth about this online all day, so I’m trying to not get worked up about it yet. If Jaime apologizes to her next week and she slaps him and calls him a rapist, that changes things for me. It won’t make me happy happy, as I feel it derails Jaime’s redemption arc by making him go backwards to his evil ways instead of forward, but I could live with some scenarios. I read someone today say that this somehow means Jaime raped Cersei every time since they were kids, so I really don’t want to go in that direction.
For sure the scene with Cersei and Jaime was a big, giant FAIL on the part of the writers and director. As linked to in the other thread, they thought it was clear that the sex ended up consensual but it sure didn’t play that way.
Oh and I wanted to point out-- Now that Bronn is Jaime’s fencing partner, will he be available later to screw up Cercei’s revenge plan? He has already married Lolly the Raped, right? In the show, I mean.
Not to my knowledge. I can’t remember exactly how it played out in the books, but I’m assuming that in the show he’ll get the land/wife/title in exchange for testifying against Tyrion at his trial.
I’m talking about later on. Bronn is outwitting Cersei while Jaime and the guy who can’t talk spar on the way to Riverrun. If Bron is going to be Jaime’s sparring partner, he won’t be around to fuck over Cersei.
That is such a minor plot point that i can’t imagine they would have bothered with it even if Bronn was not doing something else. Lolly is not even a character in the show.
What? It was a large part of Cersei’s collapse.
OK, I haven’t read the books in forever or watched last season recently, so, who is the guy who threw his sword into the horse’s head and killed the champion? Where did he come from and what is his story? I was looking at him and I was like “who the fuck is this guy?”
Daario Naharis, who was recast since last season and it seems they didn’t even want to try making them look similar. The book description is very different.
Yeah, he’s supposed to be Fabio from the last few eps of last season.
And yes, he doesn’t match the book descriptions (neither did Fabio, come to that), but then again he would look *tremendously *silly with blue hair, a triple-pronged beard and a golden moustache :).
Book Daaaaaaaaaario was pretty much Captain Jack Sparrow with a dyed beard and better teeth. I don’t think there was any way the show could adapt the character as written without critics rightfully decrying him as Jack Sparrow-lite.
The first show Daario looked like a wizard animated a guy off the cover of a supermarket bodice-ripper. To my mind, he just didn’t fit in a show that sets out to subvert and twist classic story telling tropes.