Rereading Ice and Fire

Spoilers, for those who haven’t read these yet.

In preparing for Feast for Crows I’ve been rereading the books. I’ve nearly finished Book 1.

Since I know I’m not the only other one interested in this book, hopefully the discussion will be a little better than Robert Jordan’s latest…which, SDMB-wise, anyways, seems to have flopped.

My first question is this…is there any importance to Jon’s mother? Specifically, as to who she was? Two of the three people who really cared about it are dead by the end of Book 3…

I’m sure I’ll come up with more - maybe others will, too.


Best theory I’ve read is that Jon is the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark.

Even though you say that there are spoilers, I’ll be dutiful and tag them.

I believe that Jon’s mother is likelyLyanna Stark, and he is the son of Rhaegar.A certain site has this to say about it:Rhaegar Targaryen crowned Lyanna queen of beauty after winning the Harrenhal tourney. Shortly thereafter, he abducted her, triggering her fiancé Robert Baratheon’s rebellion. Months or years later, Eddard Stark confronted three members of the Kingsguard, Rhaegar’s bodyguards and friends, at a location he called “the tower of joy.” After a fierce battle in which all three opponents were killed, Eddard found Lyanna dying inside the tower, and made a terrible (but unidentified) promise to her. Some fans believe she is the mother of Jon Snow, and that Rhaegar was his father, and that this promise was to conceal her child from Robert and other enemies of the Targaryens by claiming him as his own.Assorted clues point towards this, and I assume that if his father is as I suggested above in the spoiler link, theneventually, he will wed Dany and the two of them will rule at some point in the future.

Hmm…assuming you’re correct…

I remember Ned’s dream about the tower and how only two of the seven made it out alive against the three Kingsguard. However, I don’t recall Lyanna having been in the tower. Is it implied, or did I just totally miss it? Reagar’s orders would explain why three of the Kingsguard were far away instead of, you know, guarding the king.

I love the books but I have a hard time rereading them. I read these scenes and at the end of it I’m thinking things along the lines of, “Well, nobody in that scene makes it past book three” or ‘Did both father and son die at the Red Wedding or did the small one make it out…I can’t remember’.


I seem to remember a scene where a commoner is talking to Arya, and he mentions that his mother (a servant, I believe) is also Jon Snow’s mother. However, it is not indicated whether he is telling the truth, or even if he knows the truth.

Don’t Robert and Ned talk about “his girl” at the beginning of the first book? If Jon were really Lyanna’s child, wouldn’t Ned have to keep a fake (or perhaps real) mistress around to fool Robert?

Do you really think Ned would have sent Jon to the Wall, knowing that he is the true heir?

You’re talking about me, right?

Don’t worry. Seriously - don’t worry. The only way I’m liable to ruin a Martin thread is by over-geeking it. I’m also re-reading the series, and I hope to finish it before my delivery from

Anyway, here are a few of my theories:

  1. Jon is in fact Rhaegar and Lyanne’s child. Remember Ned remembering his sister’s last words - “Promise me.”

“Promise me to raise him as your own?” “Promise me never to reveal his parentage?” Makes sense to me. The only one who knows for sure is Howland Reed, and he’s the one major character we have yet to meet.

  1. The two strangers Arya spied upon in the bowels of the Red Keep - the bejewled man and the “magician” - were Magister Illyrio and Varys. Those two are two of the most important actors behind the scenes of the sory: they organized the rebirth of the dragons, and they will do whatever possible to keep the nation strong, even if under Lannister rule.

  2. Coldhands is Benjen Stark, back from the dead.

  3. While Thoros of Myr and Mellisandre clain to serve the same God, Thoros is the real deal and Mellisandre is a false prophet. How do I know that? For one, Tjhoros brings life, while Mellisandre only brings death. For another, Stannis’s flaming sword was an illusion, while Beric’s wasn’t - we clearly see the Hound recoil from the heat.

I’ll post a few more theories later.

I can’t see Jon Snow leaving the wall now that he is Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch. He is always concerned about his honor, and showing that a bastard has honor. He will watch from the wall, protecting the realm no matter what happens.

I am very interested in Arya, and what is going on with her. I think she will become a Sorrowful Man/Woman, but I think she will end up with an assignment to kill someone she knew. Jon maybe?

I would love to see Tyrion go to the wall. He can’t really hide anywhere. You know his sister will want him dead. Talking the black is the only option I see for him… unless he joins Dany. Would she take him?

Also how about the one scene where supposedly Ned’s wife, can’t remember her name, comes back from the dead, and is with that group that kills the drunk Fey. Magic is coming back into the world. Is she going to come back to life?

I hope he dosen’t go too far with the magic stuff. I don’t like alot of books that make everything magical. Fireballs, and spells going off all the time don’t do it for me. So far it has been good, magic is there, but not in the front.

I love the Fire and Ice books. I can’t wait for Storm of Crows. Been waiting a long time for it.


Nah. I’m actually talking about how the Jordan thread died like 3 times after I tried keeping it alive.

Anyways, here’s another one for your Nazi theory: We see a peddler and his horses sucked into the ground; Obviously a metaphor for Jews being sent straight to hell. ;j

Just joking. Off to work. I’ll continue to read the thread later.



That depends on where you’re talking about. When Melisandre burned the seven statues and Stannis’ sword was ignited from the flames (or something like that) it burned him, even through the glove he wore. After that, the sword is never really on fire again, just glowing, right? Plus, it’s clearly stated that Thoros’ sword is simply dipped in Wildfire and lit, and I don’t recall any reason to think that Beric’s sword is any different. There’s no magic there, just pyrotechnics.

But still, you’re right about Thoros and Melisandre seeming to be different in their approaches. Melisandre seems more like a succubus than a priestess.

The best argument for Lyanna being Jon’s mother is Dany’s vision in the House of the Dead, or whatever it was called–a blue rose sticking out of a wall of ice. Ned always thought of blue roses when he thought of Lyanna, and wall o’ ice is fairly self-explanatory.

I reread everything last year in preparation for the new book, and have since forgotten it all again.

Stannis’s sword was hot because it had just ben pulled out of a fire; it generated no heat of its own. With Beric Dondarrion (incidentally, my favorite fantasy name, ever), the sword seemed to spontaniously combust. There was no smell of wildfire, and no-one lit a spark or held it up to a torch. Remember, Thoros would light his sword via artificial means in the old days, before Robert died, and before he discovered his true powers (which incidentally coincided with the birth of Dany’s dragons).

Frey, not Fey. :slight_smile:

I had a friend in high school with the last name Frey so I remember that one. Pronounced “Frye” or at least that’s how her family did.

Anyways, that WAS Ned’s wife brought back to life. Just like Beric has been brought back to life something like six or seven times.

Catelyn just can’t do a lot of talking because her head was nearly sawed off…


anyone have any information regarding the long awaited release of Feast for Crows? I Special ordered it about 3 years ago when it was supposed to be released. So far the publishing date keeps getting extended about every six months. I have pretty much given up on it.

November 8th, baby. :slight_smile:

Yea, but I remember when it was Aug. 5th 2002…

I finished my reread in time for that release date, and canceled my Amazon order sometime around January of this year. I feel your pain.

Good points. I stand corrected.

So what do you suppose Melisandre is, then? She certainly has power, she’s displayed it on several occasions. Maybe a servant of the Lord of Light’s version of Satan, tricking the humans into wickedness?

Who knows? The witch that killed Dany’s baby and kept Drogo alive certainly had some power as well.

We don’t know enough about magic, divinty, and the like to speculate on how it works. Except it seems obvious (to me, anyways) that the Old Gods seem to specialize in divination and communicate by sending warning dreams.



Yeah, but that was just a made up date with no relation to reality. Amazon routinely puts false release dates up on their site. Maybe they feel it keeps interest alive or something, I don’t know.

But this time the date has been confirmed by Martin and the publisher, so it’s solid. In fact, the book is already out in the UK.