Because so much discussion based on knowledge of the books has started to clutter up the episode thread with a sea of spoiler boxes, my idea is to set up an all purpose, ongoing thread where fans of the books can compare, contrast speculate and pontificate on the arcana of the books without having to spoiler box everything. This way, the episode discussions can just be episode discussions and the hardcore geekery can take place here.
Fair warning to anyone who hasn’t read the books and doesn’t want to be spoiled. Don’t read this thread!
Don’t forget about Lady! And Septa. I was so fucking happy when she showed up with her head on a pike. Here’s a fun drinking game for book 1 - drink every time Septa gets mentioned in a Sansa chapter. Two drinks if it’s the first page of a Sansa chapter.
When the heck do Catelyn and Robb die? Was that book 4 or am I just not remembering that?
I’ve read books 1-3, haven’t read book 4, just re-read book 1.
As someone who is often oblivious to hints, I first heard about this theory a few weeks ago, and upon reading the assembled clues, I went from “No freaking way!” to “Yup, that makes perfect sense” in the space of about 5 minutes.
It’s been so long since I read them that I forgot that there are a lot of POVs that we don’t hear from for the whole 1000 pages of Feast. It just seems like the Red Wedding comes in so late in the story so far that I always think it happened in the FfC.
Yeah, a lot of the plot in Feast isn’t in my memory like the first three. I’ve only read it once so it’s not incorporated like the rest. Plus it was half a book anyway.
I’m far from convinced. There’s certainly quite a few hints here and there that they might be Jon’s parents but there’s absolutely no good evidence. A mountain of maybes doesn’t make a certainty for me. I think Ned being the father, and damned if I know who, the mother is slightly more likely.
More importantly, though, I feel that it will never be relevant to the books. I don’t see how it could be. He’s sworn to the wall. He’s already turned down being absolved of his oaths and legitimized to be made Lord of the North. I don’t see why him learning he has some Targaryan blood would make him change his mind about the Nights Watch. I certainly can’t see him becoming a major political power just because of it. Or becoming Dany’s consort or anything like that. If he ever learns his true parentage I’d expect it to be used for nothing more than showing some character growth.
On the other hand if Lyanna wasn’t the mother it leaves us without the faintest clue what was happening at the Tower of Joy. But then we only know about that from a fever dream that could have been almost all BS for all we know.
If it comes down to a choice between the fall of the Seven Kingdoms by claiming a crown, and shivering at the Wall for the rest of his life, I’m guessing Jon might decide to head south.
Heh. I was just reading stuff over at The Citadel this afternoon. The Dance of Dragons - the old one that occurred yonks ago - was a war between Targaryen brother and sister. One of the Aegons (Aegon II, maybe? I forget.) and his sister Rhaenyra. Their dad Viserys favored Rhaenyra as his heir, while The Kingmaker (the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, I think, but maybe he was just one of the council members) put it into Aegon’s head to be king. There was war, and Rhaenyra eventually lost and was killed.
Why is this important? Why do we even know about this? If R+L=Jon, that means he and Daenerys are half-siblings. And she’s going to be invading as queen, and he’s one of the realm’s sworn defenders (even though he’s forbidden from taking sides, really - that’s the flaw in my idea). I’m starting to think that Martin’s not going to go the route of making J+D = King and Queen, but rather combatants on different sides. At least at first. I guess we’ll see how it turns out.
ETA: Wait, no it doesn’t. This whole idea is pants. Rhaegar isn’t Dany’s dad, he’s her brother. So that means Jon’s her nephew, not her half brother. Never mind.
Snarky, there’s no real evidence that Jon is Ned’s son, other than Ned’s word. Robert certainly seemed to believe that Jon was Ned’s, as did Catelyn, and there’s stories and speculation about Eddard’s relationships with a coupld of different women, but there’s no real proof. There’s certainly less circumstantial evidence for Ned being Jon’s father than there is for Lyanna being Jon’s mom.