Well I suppose he might have done that anyway. But thanks for the reminders.
Anyone?
Also, Tywin (or anyone else) never admits in the books that the Lannister gold mines are exhausted, does he?
Set up the Iron Bank character?
The Stannis arc: weren’t they mentioning the Wall last season? And Davos was talking about the bank? As of this last episode, that seems to be forgotten. Granted it wasn’t Stannis-heavy. I’ll have to rewatch S3E10 or so.
I believe he definitely means to kill Robert/Robin (or have him die). The quote from the wiki is: “When Robert dies, Harry the Heir becomes Lord Harrold, Defender of the Vale and Lord of the Eyrie. Jon Arryn’s bannermen will never love me, nor our silly, shaking Robert, but they will love their Young Falcon… and when they come together for his wedding, and you come out… clad in a maiden’s cloak of white and grey with a direwolf emblazoned on the back… why, every knight in the Vale will pledge his sword to win you back your birthright. So those are your gifts from me, my sweet Sansa… Harry, the Eyrie, and Winterfell.”
It’s a bit unclear to me exactly what is in that for Littlefinger, other than that he knows he can’t rule the Vale or Winterfell directly, so the next best thing is to have Sansa do it under his tutelage/advise/control.
Certainly not that I can recall. In fact, I have vague memories or him (or someone else on the Council) advising Cersei to pay the bank it’s interest, but her rebuffing whoever made the proposal. I could very well be wrong though.
ETA: On edit I see it was Pycelle that advised Cersei against avoiding payment to the Iron Bank. It must have been before Tywin got back to King’s Landing, or maybe he knew repayment was impossible.
ETA2: Nevermind, Tywin was dead by the time that conversation happens. She used the money from not paying the bank to build her fleet of ships.
I tried to search for the answer, but I’m having trouble finding it, so if someone could make it clear to me, that would be helpful.
The Blackfyres. They were bastards who were legitimized and felt they should be on the throne because they claim the heir was himself a bastard. And even if he was legitimate, they felt one of them should be on the throne anyway.
So my question is: does a legitimate bastard in Westeros enter the line of succession? Where? After trueborn sons? After trueborn sons and daughters? By age? If they don’t enter the line of succession, what’s the point of being legitimized? Other inheritances?
I know the Blackfyres supposed real reason was the legitimacy of their half brother, but I can’t tell if that was a real Joffrey/Tommen/Myrcella thing or an excuse they used.
I think that’s just the tale he spun to convince Sansa to go along quietly. She is an extremely valuable pawn, and he doesn’t yet know for sure how he’ll use her. He wants to marry Catelyn’s daughter, to punish and humiliate Ned’s daughter, and use the highborn girl as best befits his ends. We have yet to see which of these (or what combination thereof) wins out.
Re: Cersei’s ships, it was actually one of her smarter ideas. She just didn’t choose her Admiral as intelligently.
I believe legitimized bastards are equivalent to trueborn children and enter the line of succession in their normal order.
My money’s on Shae does get across the narrow sea, and when Tyrion escapes, she’s there to help him. Brings some bit of continuity to the story, and, like many have said, Shae’s story is so much different on the show than in the book that I don’t see her dying, at least not at Tyrion’s hands. They’ve done too much to set up both Tyrion and her as very sympathetic characters; I think the backlash from him killing her would be too much, even for this show.
That said, I hope I’m wrong. I love that scene in the book. But TV-Shae isn’t nearly as much of a two-faced golddigger as Book-Shae, so I’m doubting it.
Was she really shown to be a gold digger before the trial? I could be misremembering but I had thought Shae was playing it straight with Tyrion up until he got arrested, then it seemed she took a turn. I still wasn’t convinced of her motivations, either she was lying the whole time or the Lannister clan was threatening her in some way.
Yeah, I don’t think it was ever made explicit what the deal was with Shea. She might have just taken the best path that was offered to her. As the paramour of someone who was almost certainly going to be convicted of treason and regicide, she might not have had much choice. Her attempt to seduce Tyrion after he killed Tywin is ambiguous to me. She might not have been a scheming two-timer, but maybe just not very smart. Certainly, her resistance to Tyrion’s attempts to be careful indicated that she was reckless and impulsive. It’s not clear to me that she was just playing Tyrion the whole time.
My read on book-Shae is that she’s an opportunist and will do whatever makes things good for her; I don’t think she despised Tyrion or anything like that, but I would have expected her to dump him if/when anything better ever came up. As it were, he was a pretty good catch for her, but the minute he went down she was happy enough to jump into Tywin’s bed. I don’t see it so much as her being evil as much as a reflection on her life in general; she’s looking out for herself and doesn’t place much real trust in relationships. Her alliance with Tyrion was a work arrangement on her side, he was the one who was in love.
So maybe two-faced was too strong of a word, but I never once believed she loved Tyrion any more than you love a good boss. Being his concubine was a job for her, and she did it well, but that doesn’t mean she wasn’t on the lookout for her next job if/when the first one took a downturn.
TV-Shae seems to at least like Tyrion, and may even love him. It’s at least set up that it could go that way if they decide to. That’s why I’m thinking that Tyrion/Bronn actually did get her on a ship. And it makes sense that once Tyrion escapes, he decides to go wherever he sent Shae. It’d certainly bring a bit of interest to his foibles across the narrow sea, Shae seems to be at least a moderately popular character, and the whole thing fits well enough.
Shae must die by Tyrion’s hand in Tywin’s bed. For me, it’s every bit as important as Tywin getting murdered on the shitter.
Certainly possible that he is just snowing Sansa with a tale of her being a Princess after all. I have to constantly remind myself not to trust Littlefinger, even after he tells me not to.
I agree with the others - The TV show Shae is different enough that it will be very hard to kill her and keep Tyrion in character. Well… There are ways to write that scene that would allow that outcome and keep Tyrion’s character intact. For example, she could simply attack him and try to kill him, and he could kill her in self-defense.
But I hope they keep her alive for a couple of reasons. One is that I thought it was out of character for Tyrion to kill her even in the book. And second, I’d be completely happy if Tyrion’s story line changes completely from the book, as I thought his character kind of went off the rails after he left Westeros. His whole story arc from there was just not that interesting.
What I thought was going to happen when I read the books was that Tyrion was going to find Daenerys, join her and become the one to help her govern and plan the attack on Westeros. But his plotline went on forever with no real resolution and with him behaving out of character and not doing much.
Are we really going to have time in the series to go through all the business with Ser Jorah being excommunicated, winding up in a bar, Tyrion’s adventures on that boat, finding Ser Jorah in a bar, the relationship with the dwarf actress, and all the rest? I’d be fine if they cut all that and just have Tyrion show up in Daenery’s court and become her trusted advisor. It seemed like the books were going in that direction, but it took forever for things to happen with him.
We also did not see the girl actress at Joffrey’s wedding, so that plotline would have to be somewhat changed anyway.
Amen to all that, Sam. Let’s have a Tyrion/Shae reunion and get them to Mereen and Dany on some sort of reasonable timescale.
What I’ve been thinking about is whether it’s possible to eliminate Quentyn Martell and his plot-line entirely. It’s not like he did anything at all in the book other than show up too late and get dragon’ed. Maybe his companions will prove important?
I guess they need to keep the part of Tyrion’s boat ride with Young Griff and Jon Connington and all that. I forgot, did they just decide “screw Dany” and head back to Westeros?
I think if she had been put on that ship, they would have showed her on that ship. The fact that we are hearing it second hand tells me that either she’s already dead or she will be testifying at the trial.
There’s no way Tyrion doesn’t murder Shae. That chapter is one of the, probably, five biggest chapters in the series, they’re not going to change it drastically.
I think it’d be fine if Tyrion finds Twyin with Shae and Tywin somehow ends up killing Shae. That would fit with the show and and preserve the book stuff.
I don’t why it would be so out of character for Tyrion to kill her. Sure he’s generally a “nice” guy by Westeros standards, but he still lives in a society in which life is cheap, he’s still a nobleman, and he still will have just been through a bunch of traumatic stuff, including being sure he was about to die, and then being horiffically betrayed twice in quick succession.
He’s not a saint. What makes you think he would NOT resort to deadly violence in a situation like that?
Because Tyrion is not a murderer. He never has been. He’s also much more in control of himself than that. Look at the humiliation he went through in the past, and how it took it stoically.
Killing Tywin was an intentional act, but Tywin was a monster who was willing to kill whoever got in the way. Shae was an innocent.
Also, in the show he already feels guilt at having been so nasty to Shae in order to save her life. He hurt her deeply, and he knows it and feels bad about it. If he found her in Tywin’s bed, he’d probably just feel understanding and maybe feel bad about himself for having pushed her there. He wouldn’t be thinking, “I’m going to kill that bitch.”