Wow, that was one of the most thoughtful posts from a corporate executive I believe I’ve read in years. It was far from tone deaf, more than alluded to owning up to his (company’s) part in the current mess, and provided a perspective that people on either side (so to speak) could reasonably take on, should they wish, and, I think, thereby reduce the escalation.
Bravo to Mancil, and thanks for the link.
No, you call them SJW in addition to pointing out how ludicrous their points are. It’s not just some argument-ending statement like “check your privilege”, it’s an insult meant to be used in addition to showing how ludicrous their position on the issue is. And it’s not just about their analysis of injustice being “different”, it’s about it being oversensitive almost to the point of comedy, and at times to the point of being self-defeating.
Care to enlighten me? I see an upper-middle-class Asian woman who, it is reasonable to say, has had a lot of advantages given to her in life, complaining about a piece of satire she didn’t understand, then doubling down “on the principle of it” when called on it. And then when asked to explain herself, she goes and says something racist and sexist in deflection of criticism against her position. And then a whole bunch of other phenomenal idiots stepped up to defend her. I’ve seen her claims about trying to “create a conversation” but if you want to create a conversation, it helps to not start it in a stupid way. Like, you could easily say I’m trying to “start a conversation on race in America” if I make a thread entitled “DEATH TO ZIMMERMAN KKK MURDERER OF A PERFECTLY INNOCENT CHILD”, but it wouldn’t help my case any that my OP is fucking retarded. Seriously, reading her interview on Salon.com is straight-up brain-melting, and makes me wonder how the hell anyone can take her seriously. She’s far more of a racist than almost anyone I know.
Also, on a side note, complaining about “privilege” when you’re rich enough to be able to afford a humanities degree in college and still live in a really nice house? Ugh.
Jesus. Someone else wanna take this one?
Oh, I get that class is just another vector for privilege, like race or gender. But god damn if it doesn’t smart to have someone from the race which is the most well-off in America (even as a minority group) and who obviously has no such class issues complain about institutional racism and sexism. As if it stopped her from living in the kind of house I dreamed of living in as a kid. As if it stopped her from pursuing the academic/career path she wanted. Look, I don’t honestly care if I miss the minutia of this. Look at her own words in the articles posted about her on Salon, or Washington Post, or the like. This woman is nuttybonkers. She’s a racist, a sexist, and a true-to-the-term “social justice warrior”. She shouldn’t expect any sympathy from anyone worse off than her - especially when her opinions hover so clearly around “insane” and “vapid”.
Not a fan of Suey Park, but how do you know she was “upper middle class” and I think the idea that being Asian in America confers a number of privileges on her to be remarkably stupid.
Various pictures of her home and living situation from various interviews and public appearances. That, and the fact that she went to college for humanities. I may be wrong, but it’s certainly the most reasonable assumption that her family is not poor and is in fact pretty decently well-off.
No, but it’s hardly anything to bitch and moan about. Oh, your worst stereotype is that you’re a lousy driver, and it comes with the added bonus that people assume that you’re smart?
…Wow, after deleting the sentence following that one for the third time, I’m realizing I’m kind of a really nasty drunk. My point was not “being asian in America confers privilege”. It was “Being Asian in America is a virtually negligible disadvantage”. Most, if not all stereotypes associated with Asian-Americans are positive. Economically speaking, they are extremely well-off. Meanwhile, Park appears to be trying very hard to blame as much of her failings on racism and the white power structure as possible. Rather than the fact that, I dunno, she’s switched majors several times and doesn’t seem to have a clear goal other than being twitter famous. I dunno, I should probably stop posting about this drunk. It makes me kinda nasty.
And what disadvantages do gamers suffer from? They’re usually male, usually white, and definitely rich enough to afford videogames. What right do they have to complain about anything?
DLC and early releases suck.
There’s nothing rational about Thunderf00t. He is a dishonest polemicist who uses all the tactics he criticizes. Whether he’s a brilliant physicist I have no idea. But he’s shows no brilliance in reason, just a facility for bombast and propaganda.
Electronic Arts was voted the worst company in the universe twice and gamers have to deal with EA more than anyone. There but for the grace of God goes the rest of you.
I can vouch for him being a brilliant physicist (and to a lesser degree a pretty solid chemist). WDPLAC is really, really good, regardless of what one might think about his (meanwhile quite cringeworthy) videos on feminism. So are his videos on Solar Freakin’ Roadways, Fukushima, and a number of other topics. He’s, for the most part, spot-on. It’s just feminism which happens to be a problem. I blame feminism, personally. :V
Note to admins: forum badly needs “:V” smiley.
Of course, it’s not just about oppression olympics. Park gains no traction not just because her appeals to persecution fall flat compared to what many others face, but also largely because her arguments, without the appeal to persecution, fail on their own right.
Every right, despite your worst nightmares that the First Amendment is still intact.
Does irony make a sound when it bounces off your skull?
Honestly, knowing that you’re drunk helps.
Dude, go to a library and read up on what the First Amendment dies and doesn’t cover.
Until then, hush now, the adults are talking.
You tell 'em, bosb!
Wait, what?
Injustice.
Well, perceived injustice. Well, okay, this is a leaky, shaky boat I’m sitting on.
I’m inspired by that Mancil link, so forgive me for forgetting this is the pit for a moment and aspiring to greater heights.
I’m not here to defend any atrocious behavior on the part of that portion of the population of “gamers” who have behaved atrociously. There’s been plenty of stuff that’s been over the line, by a large margin, and plenty of less-than-enlightened comments on the pro-gamergate side of things. I’m not touching that shit. Do me the favor of assuming that I’m not trying to defend shit like doxxing and fucking death threats, and this might actually make some sense.
But there’s clearly been, especially when you consider large companies like EA, and when you consider what the difference is between what the gamers want from “gaming media” and what they get, a lot of cheesy, untrue, spin-doctored bullshit.
There’s a lot of outrageous stuff out there, and some (perceived) attacks on the core of what it means to be a gamer.
It’s difficult to enter into this thread this late, when most of the people whom I might seem to be defending are fucking indefensible. But, I want to say that gamers do have something to complain about, on principle.
And those complaints are orthogonal to issues of abject abuse and oppression that minorities often feel. That orthogonality (to bastardize a language) is actually a key drive chain to this whole problem.
Gamers really do have some legitimate complaints. Some of those complaints are actually fucking meaningful in a larger, societal frame of reference. But, by and large, they are doing a crap-ass job of formulating and expressing those complaints.
Then comes the SJW’s (I’m sorry, but contrary to the gestalt of this board, it is actually a thing). Fucking oil and water, man. With gasoline and a match. Fuck 4chan. Goddammit.
Orthogonal. Leaving aside the pure assholes who don’t really get it: the true, libertarian utopia that was 4chan (no one has a gender, a race, a religion, only their words, only their ideas) is diametrically opposed to the “SJW” movement, where everyone must be respected FOR their race, their gender, their religion. In isolation, both concepts have merit. Together, they meet like apples and oranges in a firefight.
I was really happy when I could be aware of 4chan, but never go there. That I could understand that “niggerfag” and “tits or gtfo” were expressions of the most beautiful form of libertarian idealism rather than racism, homophobia, or misogyny. I was really happy when I could count myself amongst the brothers and sisters who fucking stood up and fought against oppression, in any form, in defense of my less-empowered fellow human beings (and, despite being a white, midle-class blah blah, I understand that struggle better than you fucking know. But that’s a thread you’ll never get to see - but if you challenge me on that shit, you lose, you shallow hating mother fucker. I’m a real person, asshole. My shit is deeper than your dick can reach).
And there you have it. Almost everyone who’s posted to this thread has lost the plot. These are emotionally-charged issues, and even the assholes among us have valid reasons for that level of emotionality. These issues reflect stuff that actual people are actually experiencing in their lives. And you fuckers are taking sides. Goddammit.
I expected better from you.
Somehow, a philosophical critique of a creative work is viewed as an infringement of the First Amendment, but an actual attack on the life of the person giving the critique is not.
In reality, the First Amendment is irrelevant to both.
Here’s really what I understand to be the gamers’ gripe. Video games are no longer a niche medium and having gone mainstream, they are now subject to the full range of cultural and aesthetic critiques that all creative works are subject to and they are threatened by a perceived loss of control over their pet medium.
In reality, there is no threat to them. Feminist or any other philosophical or aesthetic critiques have never threatened a medium. There is, for example, no dearth of misogynistic art, music, literature, films, television shows, etc.
What there are now are options. Critiques of the video game culture are fighting for a broader diversity in the medium so that everyone who is interested in video games can have something to look toward. This restricts no one’s rights, but has put gamer culture in a panic that they might no longer be the exclusive audience.
In reality, so long as they are a significant source of income for video games, their preferences will be served. Feminist critique won’t hurt them at all, but might indeed offer them options that they didn’t know they wanted.
That’s “Why Do People Laugh at Creationists”? I remember discovering those videos a couple of years ago and being delighted that there were so many of them and looking forward to an intelligent, stimulating, humorous critique of creationism and advocacy of atheism.
I couldn’t get more than a few videos in, however. They were tedious, repetitive, badly reasoned, didactic, ill-humored, and boring, full of ad hominem insults. And they quickly became annoying and embarrassing. I can’t imagine anyone beyond junior high taking them seriously.
No dog in this fight, primarily because I don’t know the issues well enough and I’m not gonna slog through all the bullshit to form any kind of reasoned opinion.
But, some of the comments I’ve read here about gamers being some kind of downtrodden underclass is the epitome of First World Problems. Just felt like I needed to say that.
(Slinking away now…)