Gamergate

The BBQ Pit
702

These two quotes are why you’re in no position to tell others they’ve lost the thread. Yeah, it’s really no coincidence that the only people who see “utopia” as “nobody has a gender, a race” are white dudes. Because then you can pretend that your privilege doesn’t exist, you’re just naturally that good.

Your gender, your race, have shaped how others have seen you your whole life, and influenced who you’ve become.

As for your insane profanity-laden rant straight off the Jerry Springer “YOU DON’T KNOW ME!” show, color me unconvinced, too contemptuous of the rant to challenge you on it. The idea that ugly racist misogynist insults are beautiful is, y’know, kind of emblematic of your particular brand of privilege, and when coupled with your proactive hyperdefensiveness at anyone suggesting you might not be Friend Of The Downtrodden, kind of hilarious.

703

You, of all people…

First of all, no one - at all - has claimed that gamers are “some kind of downtrodden underclass”. Period.

Some people have expressed that gamers feel that they are under attack, in some sense or other (and there are various takes on this. I particularly like mine, and Mancil’s, but there are others with a diverse viewpoint, most of which I’m not particularly fond of).

Eh, fuck it. I actually get what you’re getting at, you dig? It’s just that it undermines what I was getting at, and to no particular advantage. But I know that you didn’t mean it to do that. So, fuck it. Peace, brother. Your main vibe of being flummoxed by all this shit still stands, and I support that.

704

Pure. Asshole.

For those reading along, however… there are aspects of life other than race, gender, or class that determine personality, that reflect suffering and struggling under oppression. Dorkness has chosen to ignore my comments about such things, in a clear sign on his/her lack of empathy and capacity to understand.

Although I feel that I did an okay job of expressing myself, I think that my time is better suited to reiterating that Mancil gave a very thoughtful comment: The Problem With GamerGate is Twitter | Zen Of Design

I’m not particularly interested in Dorkness’ brand of bullshit.

705

Since your reading comprehension has disappeared along with your testicles, the person I was replying to said “What right do they have to complain about anything?” Your bringing up “an actual attack on the life of the person” is irrelevant, though it’s nice to know you’re still doing what Zoe Quinn has instructed you to.

Or, back in reality, after humiliating themselves with their imbecilic Atheism+ debacle, worthless third-wave (i.e., fake) feminists decided to go after games and those who play them, hilariously believing that they’d sit there and do nothing as they were relentlessly attacked and lied to based on spurious claims of nonexistent misogyny. Normally the whining screeches of women’s studies majors (i.e., the unemployed) is easy enough to dismiss and ignore. But then the games “journalists” decided to buy into this garbage, despite sloughing off the last outsider who claimed games and gamers were toxic (I guess it’s too bad Jack Thompson didn’t have a uterus, huh?) Mixing in this pablum with their games “coverage” became untenable, and when Zoe the Fraud was exposed as a hypocrite (having been exposed as an idiot the second she spoke for the first time), it set off the firestorm you see now.

They do so now, since men and women of all colors and sexual orientations are making games, and men and women of all colors and sexual orientations are playing them. The only difference is that such makers are doing so through a combination of talent and hard work, not whining, so this confuses dipshit identity ideologues.

Nobody cares enough about you to be in a “panic,” they’re just exercising their rights to ridicule those without any marketable skills whatsoever, who think their narcissistic whining means everyone should listen to them.

They know they don’t want it, thanks.

706

The only problem with the phrase “check your privilege” is so many people misunderstand it, sometimes it seems willfully. That was not a dig at you in particular, it is just something that can be frustrating.

Check your privilege does not mean shut up, it means you need to examine your assumptions. Like in this case. There are plenty of negative stereotypes about asians. Asian men are seen as effeminate (unless they are doing martial arts), Asian women are the exotic other to be conquered. No matter how upper middle class you are, if you spend your whole time in college fending off guys who love anime who see you as totem instead of a person, you might get a little resentful.

Privilege is multifaceted. Everyone who can post on a message boards has at least a few forms, but the key is to understand them. Some recent examples that someone on the radio was complaining about:

Telling people who are out of shape, to just slap on some shoes and go running. The assumptions that everyone a) can afford running shoes b) live in an area that makes for safe running c) are physically capable of running and d)have time to do that are not universally true.

Mocking people who run from bees and wasps. The person involved was one of the lucky few who barely notices bee and wasp stings and assumes that those that do are just weak.

Ironically, the same guy will call out people who make privileged assumptions about drug addiction. He is a recovering alcoholic, so does not have the privilege of just having a few drinks and calling it a night, or even going to hang out a bar or club. But like most of us, we only see the things that effect us.

The big thing about privilege is not that it is bad that you have it. The problem is we are usually blind to it and assume that everyone has that privilege. Think about Romney’s comment about unemployment. His advice was to start a business, even if you needed to borrow start up money from your parents. It never occurred to him that advice was completely useless to the vast majority of people he was directing it at. Pointing out those kinds of blind spots is the whole point of the phrase.

See here is the ultimate in hypocritical bit of unchecked privilege. People offering critiques he disagrees with is significantly worse than death threats. Not recognizing the personal suffering he has been through in his life is worse than using words that have been used do dehumanizing to point of killing.

Everyone has issues not directly related to race, class, gender, sexual orientation. But I assure you, if you are white, rich, male, straight, and cis, those issues are most likely going to be easier for you to handle than otherwise. It would suck for anyone to get in a serious car accident, but the white guy is less likely to be shot knocking on doors looking for help. The rich guy is likely to lose his job and house because of time off and medical bills.

I don’t care what your situation is, if you think nothing could have been worse than you are deluding yourself. AsJohn Scalzi said

707

Don’t worry, we don’t find the opinions of racists and gender supremacists to be worthy of consideration, but since those who do have never accomplished anything meaningful in their lives, it’s easier for them to blame pretend white boogie-men for their suffocating failures.

We don’t judge others based on race or gender, you do. There’s the difference :slight_smile:

708

It’s nonexistent, just a way for failures to feel better about themselves by blaming something or someone else for their pathetic livelihoods.

So IOW, racial and sexual minorities are incapable of handling life without the racial and sexual majorities making things easier for them. Pal, if you’re a minority, you have crippling self-esteem issues. If you’re a majority, you’re just a racist. Either way it’s not looking good.

709

It’s hard to see what Zoe Quinn has to do with EA Games.

Here’s a piece that attempts to explain the pro-gamergate side of things. I still don’t really get it but here is a quote:

Misogyny in gamers is variable in its expression. Guys might be hostile, ignore you, sexually harass you, patronise you, white knight, give you items, be extra-helpful. They all happen. To say gamergate is pure misogyny doesn’t seem right to me, because that is not how it manifests in any game I have played. But other than that, I don’t understand what the gamers are on about. EAs bullshit tricks? Biased reviews? Internet censorship? The evil SJWs are responsible for all of it, I guess.

I think gamers are mostly accepting of all types of people, as long as they behave indistinguishably from straight white males.

710

I note you skipped responding to the quote from John Scalzi, probably because you really have nothing to say that could rebut it. Starting life on third base and then thinking everyone should get home runs as easily as you is another way of putting it. This is what “Check your privilege” means. I don’t always agree with people who seem to be constantly looking for things to be offended about, but if you actually believe we all have equality of opportunity in life you truly are an idiot.

711

Wow, with all the non-whites getting shot by cops these days for such heinous crimes as cosplaying, you’d think there’d be a better time to make this argument…

712

Speaking of privilege, feminists should check theirs. 3rd wave feminism is no longer about equality, but supremacy.

The gig is up when mainstream publications like Time starts calling the ideology out on thier kooky shit.

713

You’d be surprised how often it’s used as the former. Indeed, part of the problem with it is that it does nothing to foster understanding, and basically ends conversations. One problem with checking my privilege seems to be that it’s almost bound up into the term that I can’t see my own privilege (unless it’s explained to me).

Yeah, I can see that. But even given that, Park’s complaints about racism go way over the top. She’s basically scapegoated society as a whole for all of her problems (many of which are incredibly first-world, mind you). And above all, she’s made it clear that it’s her way or the highway. There will be no discussion; she’s not even going to bother to explain herself to the white cishet male scum, she’s going to just try to revolutionize the power structure without them (as if alienating the very people whose minds you need to change is the way to go on that). She’s the living embodiment of a SJW. Does she suffer due to inequality? Maybe. Does she suffer anywhere near to the degree she’s made it out to be? Only in her own mind. Like, this guy says:

For a lot of people, that’s a phenomenally stupid statement. For Suey Park, it seems right on the money.

It gets better past the first 5 or so.

714

And now I feel like a complete idiot. I was responding to a message on reddit about this, and it dawned on me that the whole thing is a troll.

Rantic Solutions is just too perfect. It exactly exemplifies the boogeyman of 4chan. It was created to troll 4chan–probably by 4chan. My proof is that the site itself is still “hacked,” which is not something that would stay up otherwise. But I should have realized it from the start.

As for the current topic: If Suey Park is an SJW, then SJWs are about stupidity, not malice. She didn’t get the joke, got angry, and then didn’t want to admit she was wrong, and spun her objection into something else. She had legitimate points, but none of them applied to the actual situation at hand.

But that’s not the definition I see being used now. SJWs aren’t just stupid. They are malicious, trying to destroy anything they deem to not be “politically correct” enough, and will use dubious tactics to cause it to happen.

715

If people constantly misunderstand the language you use, it’s probably a good idea to not use that language anymore.

The term just creates problems. When you think of someone having an unfair privilege, what do you normally think is the solution? For that privilege to be revoked, right? But the problem with white straight male privilege is not that white straight males have it, but that other people don’t.

Outside an academic conversation where no other term will do, I think it is a stupid way to frame the issue. “Check your privilege” is only useful amongst those who already understand the concept and have made a bigoted assumption. It’s a concise reminder of a complicated subject. It’s horrible when talking to anyone else.

716

To my knowledge, this is accurate. There is a certain degree of malice baked-in, in that they are sometimes thought to be sort of looking for situations like this to insert themselves into, but most are just… dumb.

Yeah, I think this might be a definition problem.

717

I think feminists and minorities are constantly being instructed on better way to do things or say things in a world in whole a significant contingent is prepared to "misunderstand " you no matter how you say it.

718

This wasn’t here when I wrote my other post. I can understand a definition of SJW like this, except for one thing: I don’t see why how much she’s suffered factors into it. The main thing I get out of this is that you believe she is using tactics that will only serve to piss off the people she is trying to convert. How large the injustice is is entirely irrelevant.

The thing about social equality is that most people actually agree with it now. The issue now is in not realizing what’s still there. You can’t use the same tactics you would use against complete hostility against those who are trying to do good but failing.

She can’t have her revolution if she’s alienating the people who might start it. I mean, I’m the guy who decried Avril Lavigne’s “Hello Kitty” video, because I saw in it the type of “othering” that Japanese Americans face. I’m exactly the right type of person to understand this sort of thing.

But I’m also white, male, and think she was an idiot with the Colbert thing. But if BPC you are right about what she’s said, then she thinks I’m part of the problem. Why would I help her?

719

That’s just messed up, dude. If you, for even a second, believe that I think the penny-ante bullshit I was talking about compares to fucking death threats, you really have your head twisted on this whole thing. There are plenty of examples of privileged thinking in this thread you could have used that don’t require a gross failure of reading comprehension on your part.

The other bit is where there’s more than room for fair disagreement - and I’m really not qualified nor inclined to further defend 4chan’s culture. I just “get it”, to a small degree, and find it an interesting subcultural tidbit that they have approached emotionally-charged language in the way that they have. It’s certainly not without its problems, obviously, and is clearly a major contributing factor to the gamergate issue.

But your… pride?.. at being insensitive to another’s personal suffering strikes an odd note when you condemn dehumanization in the same sentence. Really odd.

720

Eh, you can take it or leave it. Reminds me of politics and you get things like “Hey, you Republicans need to come up with something better than ‘Party of Santa Claus’ and ‘Democrats want to keep you on the plantation’ if you want to reach out to minorities” and the inevitable response of “Shut up, why would we ever listen to you? We know what we’re doing!”

This thread has shown me that a lot of gamers can be total assholes but I already knew that. It’s also illustrated that a lot of “feminists” aren’t worth discussing it with (no, I’m not going to specifically illustrate it since it won’t be about ‘doing better’ but about ‘you’re wrong!’) which is a little more depressing than the gamer thing in a lot of ways.

721

Because you are constantly receiving the instructions, they must be false? Or are you accusing me of being the type of person who would “misunderstand” no matter what you say?

I am a feminist. I am giving advice because I know what did and did not work for me. I am giving the advice because I know what would work on me. No talk of social privilege has helped me in any way. Talk of how I didn’t understand what it’s like to be a minority or a woman? Sure. Talk about how I am privileged not to have to experience what they experience? Not at all.

I’ve also encountered those types of people who are obviously seeking for any flaw to discount everything I’ve said. That doesn’t mean everyone is. My posting history is proof that just ignoring people’s complaints, even if you disagree with them, doesn’t work.