Indeed. It is much like conspiracy nutters. One of them makes a claim, so to get notice and approval the next one makes an even crazier claim. It just spirals into stupid.
I do not think it’s normal (and correct me if I am wrong) for those communities to engage in threats outside the communities itself. Horrible things on YouTube or in-game chat is really, really different than calling or sending letters to someone’s house, or sending an email to a university where someone is going to speak.
I mean, is it really common for in-game fights to lead to threats being made through external channels?
This goes well beyond Internet trolling. GamerGate has escalated to full on death threats and terrorism. It’s disgusting and I can’t wait until everyone comes to their senses.
The model holds - this isn’t regular people egging each other on to be silly: it’s assholes egging each other on to be assholier. Same principle, just starting with a particular pro-asshole bias.
I think the word “misogyny” is horribly overused and lost most sense of its meaning these days. It is a word bandied about so casually as to be near meaningless.
That you would assume these people have an abiding hatred of women is remarkable. Anecdotal as it may be I have rarely met an actual misogynist. I have met jerks, dicks, pricks, assholes and just plain not nice people in the course of my life but almost never would I say they hate women even if it was a woman they were being an asshole towards.
Sure, in some cases.
Cooper Lawrence, writer of self-help books, made some ill-informed comments about Mass Effect and the backlash was immediate and widespread. Her book on Amazon was trashed to oblivion by irate gamers. IIRC Amazon had to put a hold on her book while they cleaned out the “reviews” on her page. I do not know if she got death threats but it would not surprise me. Nerd rage is a thing and its targets are not defined by gender.
In the case of Sarkeesian she is absolutely a lightning rod so will pull more attention. She is of the same ilk as Ann Coulter or Rush Limbaugh. She makes a living out of spurring outrage and making outrageous claims. Same as Coulter and Limbaugh she will attract more venomous reactions.
None of that excuses the bad behavior of these people making threats. I mean it that I wish the FBI would get serious about these things and drag the offenders into court and send them to prison for a long time. Such threats ARE NOT ok and should be prosecuted.
But will you put all that up to misogyny or behavior only pointed at women?
BS.
James Bond is a grade-A misogynist. He doesn’t “hate” women in this sense, either, nor is he an asshole to most of them. Doesn’t mean he’s not a misogynist. And it doesn’t mean he hasn’t been recognized as such for decades.
I see similar arguments made about racists from time to time. Just because people aren’t riding around in white hoods and tossing flaming sticks of wood into somebody’s yard doesn’t mean the meaning of “racist” has lost its meaning, either, though a lot of people (including some on this board) say exactly that.
Does that mean ALL the behavior can be chalked up to misogyny? No. But that doesn’t warrant minimizing the impact of misogyny in starting and perpetuating this disgusting situation.
I am going to off my own track and say that most of the gamergate trolls are not out and out misogynists. At least the ones who aren’t camped at 8chan.
That being said, I would wager most of them are more like ‘that guy’. You know the one - the guy that loudly proclaims that he is not racist, and probably does hate the KKK, and doesn’t like how things were in the age of segregation. Y’know, he’s not rascist, buuuuuut he doesn’t understand why black people don’t get 6 figure jobs like the one his frat brothers got for him. He’s the first one to say the black guy who got shot by the cops had to be doing something horribly wrong for the cops to shoot him, the guy who thinks there’s no hardships with being black because, y’know, he’s not racist and would tell the KKK to fuck off if they showed up. So therefore everything should be fine.
You know, *that *guy. Only instead of race the issue is gender. The average gamergater can’t understand why women in gaming complain about abuse all the time - he’s never abused a woman playing online except for those few times in HALO when those bitchcunts were camping. And what’s the big deal if half the guys on his team scream “Tits or GTFO” at everything with a female name in the game? It’s all just in good fun right? They should get a thicker skin and all. But hey, he’s not a misogynst because he thinks women should still have the right to vote (“you’re welcome”) and stuff - he even signed an online petition against that bill that was gonna defund Planned Parenthood in some state. That makes him an enlightened guy, right? So to him it isn’t about women, it’s just those damn radical femminists bitchcunts who go and point out issues with his fave game’s treatment of women, or that other bitchcunt who must be destroyed because she slept with some guy or something.
In any case, that guy has a Vivian James avatar, because he can’t find many women in gaming that sympathize with his position so thankfully his fellow gamergaters went and built that straw ally. Now we can fill her voice balloons with what we think those women in gaming should be thinking and saying instead of complaining about the abusive situations that they are obviously exaggerating or should just learn to deal. First thing he’s gonna do is make a Vivian James meme where she’s telling off some radical feminist and then he’s gonna make another where Vivian says how gamergate isn’t sexist or racist and that will make it so.
James Bond is not a misogynist.
James Bond is a male chauvinist:
Misogyny is a word that has been co-opted and used overly broadly. Doesn’t change its definition.
Oh my goodness.
Death threats are just jokes. Misogyny doesn’t exist (hey, I love women I just hate uppity ones!) and now we have language prescriptiveness in the mix?
The stupid-evil hurts!
Is that anything like making your own straw Gamergate supporter who you can fill with all sorts of ideals like calling female gamers “bitchcunts” for camping?
If your idea of a strawman is one where you give them the benefit of the doubt, sure.
Death threats in games, indeed in society at large, are common. Heck, the president of the US gets death threats on a regular basis (30 a day at one point). Which ones do you pay attention to?
Never said misogyny doesn’t exist. Said people are using the term inappropriately. You can complain about “prescriptiveness” but words mean things. If you want to make your own definitions then just say, “Ickle thrip bodkin!” and in your world of what words mean the argument is over.
No, my idea of a straw man is where you just make up an argument (or an opponent) you can easily argue against. You know, like giving the “benefit of the doubt” to Mr. Bitchcunt Caller. “Oh, I don’t think they’re all bad people… they’re just bad enough to justify my debating needs. Let me make one up to prove it how open minded I am about this…”
Pat yourself on the back, same as Mr. Bitchcunt patted his back for signing that Planned Parenthood petition before his team went on to scream “Tits or get out!” to those female gamers in his Halo game.
No, not really. I think I have described their position and attitude at this point quite well, giving them far more benefit of the doubt than they deserve at this time in gamergate’s lifespan. Feel free to explain why I am wrong because just whining “strawman, wah!” doesn’t cut it.
I just found it funny because “Wah, straw ally!” is a stock cry in this thread. And then you go and create the opponent of your choosing which not only fits your needs for the attack but also let’s you congratulate yourself on how great you are for giving him the “benefit of the doubt”.
Look, I’m not going to convince you of what you just did while you’re so busy congratulating yourself. That’s fine. I can laugh at the hypocrisy regardless of how convinced you are.
For the record, death threats are wrong, being worried about “gaming journalism ethics” strikes me as rock stupid and anyone who thinks some Youtube videos matter more to publishers than a billion dollars in sales from people who want Manly-Man firing twin gatling lasers as he rescues Princess Lingerie is a moron. That doesn’t make the other side’s claims and arguments any less amusing though.
Really? Because I think it was said once before and that was by me. Feel free to prove me wrong.
I find the term fits Vivian James, but that is my HO.
I’m hardly making this kind of person up, they are endemic in multiple other fields. The only difference is a few extra actions they have taken here and there “mansplaining” as a dig towards a certain attitude towards women predates gamergate by quite a while.
But do feel free to show me how I am wrong about the gamergaters.
I cannot speak for Jophiel but for my $0.02:
I’m not even sure what you are on about. You say it is not misogyny but then paint a picture crafted to be as on the edge of misogyny as you can get…indeed likening them to closet racists.
I agree 100% there are people out there like you describe. The problem is in ascribing their motives.
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Are they misogynists? Doubtless some are.
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Are they juveniles who think that kind of talk is cool? Probably.
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Are they people who are inept socially? Likely.
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Are they people who just had a bad day and are lashing out? Sure.
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Are they people who get lost in a moment of excitement and say something stupid? Magic 8-Ball says yes.
And so on…
It is a big world out there.
It’s not my job to prove that your imaginary person is wrong (how on earth does one do that?), it’s your job to defend that you’re right.
My error here though. The whole “Vivian James is a straw man” thing is common throughout the internet in the whole debate but the complaints in this thread are mainly from you.