Gamergate

[Mr.Miskatonic]

@Whack-a-Mole

I cannot speak for Jophiel but for my $0.02:

I’m not even sure what you are on about. You say it is not misogyny but then paint a picture crafted to be as on the edge of misogyny as you can get…indeed likening them to closet racists.

I’d call them more oblivious, not realizing there is a problem because they are coming from the position where they have no problems and don’t experience any problems.

Then when someone points out that there are problems their immediate reaction is to get very defensive. This is where things get really hairy because a person can go either way at that point. They can acknowledge there is an issue and maybe while not being active at fighting it at least try to not be part of the problem.

Or they can dig in their heels, insist there is no problem, and claim it is they who are the ones being persecuted by the people who want to change their nice happy little world. That’s where things can get really ugly. Because then they seek solace and reassurance among those who agree with them and it starts to get worse and worse. Which is what has happened with the gamergaters.

I agree 100% there are people out there like you describe. The problem is in ascribing their motives.

• Are they misogynists? Doubtless some are.

• Are they juveniles who think that kind of talk is cool? Probably.

• Are they people who are inept socially? Likely.

• Are they people who just had a bad day and are lashing out? Sure.

• Are they people who get lost in a moment of excitement and say something stupid? Magic 8-Ball says yes.

And so on…

It is a big world out there.

True enough.

[Mr.Miskatonic]

@Jophiel

My error here though. The whole “Vivian James is a straw man” thing is common throughout the internet in the whole debate but the complaints in this thread are mainly from you.

I’ve referred to her as a Straw Ally. Frankly given that she is a fictional character designed as a support for what is a overheavily male demographic I don’t really think the term is wrong.

Would you prefer an alternative? Mouthpiece puppet? Moral Cartoon Reassurance?

[Mr.Miskatonic]

@Jophiel

It’s not my job to prove that your imaginary person is wrong (how on earth does one do that?), it’s your job to defend that you’re right.

#gamergate.
Done.

[Whack-a-Mole]

@Mr.Miskatonic

I’d call them more oblivious, not realizing there is a problem because they are coming from the position where they have no problems and don’t experience any problems.

This is neither here nor there but I’d say you can still be a misogynist (or racist or whatever) even if you (general “you”) are oblivious to it.

[Jophiel]

@MandaJo

I do not think it’s normal (and correct me if I am wrong) for those communities to engage in threats outside the communities itself. Horrible things on YouTube or in-game chat is really, really different than calling or sending letters to someone’s house, or sending an email to a university where someone is going to speak.

I mean, is it really common for in-game fights to lead to threats being made through external channels?

This article on Robert Bowling makes reference to the fact that death threats against game developers are largely considered part of the landscape (and most developers don’t take them as credible).

Receiving death threats was just part of the day job for Robert Bowling, who served as the creative strategist for lead Call of Duty development studio Infinity Ward during the series’ rise over the last few years. He left the company after a seven-year stint in late March and is now the president of Robotoki Studios.

Bowling says he didn’t take most of the threats seriously. Developers from around the world who were interviewed for this story said the same thing: the vile messages they receive calling for their death usually don’t have the whiff of real, actionable intent to murder. They have nonetheless become common, lubricated by the ease of communicating online where he or she who is angry about a game finds release in threatening to kill their suddenly least-favorite game creators.

That, of course, doesn’t excuse the threats. Just that it’s nothing new. You didn’t really start hearing about it until this whole Quin/Sarkeesian/Gamergate debacle.

[Merneith]

@Jophiel

That, of course, doesn’t excuse the threats. Just that it’s nothing new. You didn’t really start hearing about it until this whole Quin/Sarkeesian/Gamergate debacle.

Maybe it’s new to you, but weev’s campaign against Kathy Sienna started in 2007.
Here’s a Guardian article about the death threats that prompted Sarkeesian to cancel the Utah speech.

Feminist games critic cancels talk after terror threat

The author of the email threatened that if the talk was not cancelled, they would carry out an attack in the style of the 1989 Montreal massacre, when Marc Lépine murdered 14 women, claiming he was “fighting feminism”.

“I have at my disposal a semi-automatic rifle, multiple pistols, and a collection of pipe bombs,” the letter said. “This will be the deadliest school shooting in American history and I’m giving you a chance to stop it.”

“You have 24 hours to cancel Sarkeesian’s talk … Anita Sarkeesian is everything wrong with the feminist woman, and she is going to die screaming like the craven little whore that she is if you let her come to USU. I will write my manifesto in her spilled blood, and you will all bear witness to what feminist lies and poison have done to the men of America.”

This is not “business as usual” on the internet.

[Merneith]

Oh - this Giant Bomb article has the whole email about the death threats. The writer’s a big Marc Lepine fan, so you know, totally not a misogynist!

Also: He doesn’t represent me!

[Kimstu]

@Jophiel

This article on Robert Bowling makes reference to the fact that death threats against game developers are largely considered part of the landscape (and most developers don’t take them as credible).

Your selection of a quote from that article left out the part about the considerable number of threats that Bowling and other developers do consider credible, though:

And what was one of the results of Sony Online Entertainment releasing EverQuest, besides success? One former employer said threats of violence from some gamers led the studio to hiring guards. […]

For Bowling, the worst threats weren’t the ones he got. The worst were the ones that were sent to his family. “When they started posting photos and messages about my two year old daughter, that’s when I would start losing sleep,” he said. […]

Bowling started receiving packages he didn’t order. Wary of what they contained, he adopted a new policy: “anything that comes our way that is unsolicited basically just goes in the trash.” […]

“[…] It would start with nasty messages online. It would turn into trying to hack my accounts.” The hacking would trigger a battery of e-mails to Bowling regarding attempts to recover “forgotten” passwords. “Once they failed at that, the phone calls and e-mails and the next step of threats would come.”

That’s not just people being fuckwads on the internet. That’s criminal behavior.

[Jophiel]

@Kimstu

Your selection of a quote from that article left out the part about the considerable number of threats that Bowling and other developers do consider credible, though:

That’s not just people being fuckwads on the internet. That’s criminal behavior.

No arguments and while I didn’t intentionally exclude anything, it doesn’t affect my point either – this shit’s been going on for a long, long time. Far longer than Quinn or Sarkeesian or Gamergate or a hundred articles per week from Gawker.

That doesn’t excuse anyone’s threats as “okay”, just putting it into context. Even the Utah thing isn’t “new”. As noted upthread, a couple months ago, John Smedley (CEO, Sony Online Entertainment) was on a plane that got diverted due to someone sending the airline a bomb threat. Smedley was actually grousing on Twitter about the airline’s delay when he learned it was actually because of a threat against him (at which point he appropriately ate his humble pie).

This shit happens. It shouldn’t happen. But it’s not new or merely a byproduct of misogyny.

[Banquet_Bear]

@Jophiel

This article on Robert Bowling makes reference to the fact that death threats against game developers are largely considered part of the landscape (and most developers don’t take them as credible).

That, of course, doesn’t excuse the threats. Just that it’s nothing new. You didn’t really start hearing about it until this whole Quin/Sarkeesian/Gamergate debacle.

…the very section you cited explains why the Quin/Sarkeesian/Wu were treated as credible threats.

Developers from around the world who were interviewed for this story said the same thing: the vile messages they receive calling for their death usually don’t have the whiff of real, actionable intent to murder.

These particular threats included family names numbers and descriptions, addresses and even the name of the dog. These threats were credible: hence the need for action. And has been mentioned by others,

And if death threats “are largely considered part of the landscape” then that is what needs to be addressed. We don’t have to settle and accept the attacks on Quin/Sarkeesian etc, as just something that happens in gaming. Shrugging your shoulders and declaring “this is nothing new” is a pathetic response. This sort of harassment should not be treated as normal.

[Whack-a-Mole]

@Kimstu

Your selection of a quote from that article left out the part about the considerable number of threats that Bowling and other developers do consider credible, though:

Fair enough.

How many of these credible threats were followed up on by either law enforcement and/or the creep following through on their threat?

[Acsenray]

@Jophiel

That, of course, doesn’t excuse the threats. Just that it’s nothing new. You didn’t really start hearing about it until this whole Quin/Sarkeesian/Gamergate debacle.

So your point is that misogyny is nothing new?

[Jophiel]

@Acsenray

So your point is that misogyny is nothing new?

It’s not new but my point was that threats against people working in the gaming business are nothing new. There’s a whole lot of bad stuff that’s nothing new. Really, I’m not sure what your point is…

[Jophiel]

@Banquet_Bear

And if death threats “are largely considered part of the landscape” then that is what needs to be addressed. We don’t have to settle and accept the attacks on Quin/Sarkeesian etc, as just something that happens in gaming. Shrugging your shoulders and declaring “this is nothing new” is a pathetic response. This sort of harassment should not be treated as normal.

Sure. Too bad we had to wait until we could tie it to misogyny before we got a hundred articles and a billion Tweets about it. But by all means, I agree that addressing it is a worthy goal.

[BrainGlutton]

@Jophiel

It’s not new but my point was that threats against people working in the gaming business are nothing new.

I still don’t understand at all why anyone would make threats against people working in the gaming business, of all things.

[Banquet_Bear]

@Jophiel

Sure. Too bad we had to wait until we could tie it to misogyny before we got a hundred articles and a billion Tweets about it. But by all means, I agree that addressing it is a worthy goal.

…stop being a pathetic passive aggressive gamergate apologist. It really is becoming tiresome. Just grow up already.

[Jophiel]

@BrainGlutton

I still don’t understand at all why anyone would make threats against people working in the gaming business, of all things.

Me neither. Like I said before, none of the supposed “legitimate” issues of Gamergate resonate with me. They’re just video games. Pew-pew, go have some fun.

[Jophiel]

@Banquet_Bear

…stop being a pathetic passive aggressive gamergate apologist.

With Us Or Against Us!!! :mad::mad::mad::mad:

:rolleyes:

[BrainGlutton]

Relates to GamerGate: Anita Sarkeesian was set to speak at Utah State University. USU received death threats promising “the deadliest school shooting in American history” if she did.

On Tuesday, the University announced that it intended to still hold the event, despite the warning that “feminists have ruined my life and I will have my revenge, for my sake and the sake of all the others they’ve wronged.” University spokesman Tim Vitale told the Standard Examiner that the school had consulted with federal, local and state law enforcement and determined it was safe to go on with the appearance, noting that “They determined the threat seems to be consistent with ones [Sarkeesian] has received at other places around the nation. The threat we received is not out of the norm for [her.]” Yep, just your typical, run of the mill, everyday let’s-kill-the-feminists thing. Your basic vow of a “Montreal Massacre-style attack,” a promise that “I have at my disposal a semi-automatic rifle, multiple pistols, and a collection of pipe. This will be the deadliest school shooting in American history and I’m giving you a chance to stop it… One way or another, I’m going to make sure they die… She is going to die screaming like the craven little whore that she is if you let her come to USU…. I will write my manifesto in her spilled blood, and you will all bear witness to what feminist lies and poison have done to the men of America” letter. As you do. The school promised additional security around the event, and “not allowing large bags or backpacks inside.”

What it did not do, however, and the reason Sarkeesian ultimately canceled, was actually commit to stopping people from bringing in guns. As Sarkeesian explained on Twitter late Tuesday, “Forced to cancel my talk at USU after receiving death threats because police wouldn’t take steps to prevent concealed firearms at the event… Requested pat downs or metal detectors after mass shooting threat but because of Utah’s open carry laws police wouldn’t do firearm searches.” The University echoed her remarks in a statement that explained, “Sarkeesian asked if weapons will be permitted at the speaking venue. Sarkeesian was informed that, in accordance with the State of Utah law regarding the carrying of firearms, if a person has a valid concealed firearm permit and is carrying a weapon, they are permitted to have it at the venue.”

[Banquet_Bear]

@Jophiel

With Us Or Against Us!!! :mad::mad::mad::mad:

:rolleyes:

…yeah, keep on whining you big baby. If you really think that “the other side” is worth defending, stop being passive aggressive about it and just come out and defend them.