Gandalf the Gray and Gandalf the White. Explanations needed.

[FilmGeek]

I’ve tried (and tried and tried) to read the books but, in my probably reviled opinion, Tolkien just wasn’t a very good storyteller. His plot lines, linguistics and characters are fantastic and very memorable as well as borrowed, alluded to and blatently stolen by others, but 20 pages about Hobbits stopping to eat and wash their feet do not make for a good reading… and definitely should not have been in the movies.

The portion that I have read was wonderfully condensed and realized by Peter Jackson and crew (and stunningly shot by Andrew Lesnie).

People who are huge fans of books NEVER like the movie because there are parts missing or out of order or whatever. I personally would HATE to see a movie made of the Dark Tower books because there is no way anyone could put everything in to two (or four or twenty) hours of film that King puts into those books. Very very few King books have had satisfactory films made of them, but that doesn’t make me hate them, or make my opinion (of book or film) any less valid. I liked the Shining (book) and the movie (Nicholson version), but they aren’t the same.

Gandalf (to put it in roleplaying terms) was ‘killed’, ‘resurrected’ and ‘leveled up’. Try killing off a character in D&D and doing a ressurection and see how much you remember.

[Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor]

Try New Tide® with Bleach!

Look at this tired, Grey old Gandalf!

Now, adter washing out the Balrog stains in New Tide® with Bleach— HE IS TRANSFORMED!

For a Whiter, Brighter Gandalf, use New Tide® with Bleach!

[wolfman]

Try New Tide® with Bleach!

Look at this tired, Grey old Gandalf!

Now, adter washing out the Balrog stains in New Tide® with Bleach— HE IS TRANSFORMED!

For a Whiter, Brighter Gandalf, use New Tide® with Bleach!

Thank you so much for associating Tolkien’s God with the screaming OxyClean guy in my head.

[smiling_bandit]

One by one the other wizards succumbed to worldly attractions. Sauruman to power, Radagast to solitude and comfort of the wild.

It was never clear what the purpose or mission of the o0ther wizards was. Two of them immediately left to the far part of the world, so no one knows what they did. Radagast’s whole mission may have been to take care of the natural world. Men and Elves aren’t the only important things, you know.

[NoCoolUserName]

Tastes great! Less filling! Wait, you’re both right, it’s a breath mint and a candy mint!!!

The movies stand alone well enough–there are some holes but probably fewer than many big-budget films (I’ve seen SWAT and The Italian Job and left the theatre with many “what the…?” thoughts buzzing in my head). Remember that New Line &c. put up big bucks to let PJ film 3 movies at once. They expect a return on that money and PJ has clearly made the right “artistic” decisions to be sure that return happens.

All that said, the books have a lot of detail and depth that is left out of the movies. If you want to know what Tolkien really wanted to say, you’ll have to read.

Minor nitpick:

*Originally posted by C K Dexter Haven *
**he is now the White wizard, and describes himself as “Saruman as he might have been.” **

The actual quote is:

‘Yes, I am white now,’ said Gandalf. ‘Indeed I am Saruman, one might almost say, Saruman as he should have been.’

Now to the question from the OP:

*Originally posted by Sanscour *
Anyway, I was wondering if someone knew the differences and similarities between Gray and White. Similarities: same knowledge. Difference: White has his badass factor upped a notch. Are there more?

Gandalf says:

Get up, my good Gimli! No blame to you and no harm done to me. Indeed my friends, none of you have any weapon that could hurt me.

…and…

I have passed through fire and deep water since we parted. I have forgotten much that I thought I knew, and learned again much that I had forgotten. I can see many things far off, but many things that are close at hand I cannot see.

…and finally…

Then darkness took me, and I strayed out of thought and time, and I wandered far on roads that I will not tell.

Naked I was sent back–for a brief time, until my task is done.

Make of that what you will.

[NoCoolUserName]

*Originally posted by Erroneous *
**Minor hijack, but that particular scene bugged me just a little tiny bit in the movie. Gandalf’s already reunited with Merry and Pippin as Gandalf the White, so why, shortly after this, would he almost not remember that he used to be Grey, when he’s surely just had to explain his ‘death’ and ‘rebirth’ to the hobbits? **

Gandalf had not met the hobbits. He says:

…they met someone that they did not expect. Does that comfort you?

They met Treebeard, not Gandalf. Gandalf & Treebeard had only seen each other. Gandalf says:

I saw him four days ago striding among the trees, and I think he saw me, for he paused; but I did not speak, for I was heavy with thought, and weary after my struggle with the Eye of Mordor; and he did not speak either, nor call my name.

[Erroneous]

In the movie, they meet Gandalf. I’m almost sure of it. Treebeard takes them to see “the White Wizard”, and then Bum-BA-BUM (dramatic music) as Treebeard tosses Merry and Pippin at the feet of Gandalf, who we only see from the back for a second.

[smoke]

I agree with Erroneous’ recollection of the movie. We are led to believe that Treebeard is taking them to Saruman, because we have not yet been introduced the Gandalf the White, and the rest happens as already explained.

A question:
quote:

Then darkness took me, and I strayed out of thought and time, and I wandered far on roads that I will not tell.

Naked I was sent back–for a brief time, until my task is done.

I know that this is left open to interpretation, but what’s the dominant interpretation, if there is one at all? Is Gandalf referring to his current incarnation when he drops the “Naked…” line, with the naked being the lack of “disguise”, so to speak, that allows him to show his true power?

[Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor]

*Originally posted by wolfman *
**Thank you so much for associating Tolkien’s God with the screaming OxyClean guy in my head. **

You’re very welcome!

Next time a childhood hero of yours appears on the Board, point it iout to me, and I’ll dash it to atoms, too.

[Grey]

*Originally posted by smoke *
**A question:
quote:

Then darkness took me, and I strayed out of thought and time, and I wandered far on roads that I will not tell.

Naked I was sent back–for a brief time, until my task is done.

I know that this is left open to interpretation, but what’s the dominant interpretation, if there is one at all? Is Gandalf referring to his current incarnation when he drops the “Naked…” line, with the naked being the lack of “disguise”, so to speak, that allows him to show his true power? **

In the book Gandalf is rescued from the mountain top by Gwaihir Lord of the Eagles (same eagle from the escape from Isengard escape) and is taken to Lorien where he is clothed in White by Galadriel. Gwaihir notes that Gandalf is light as a feather compared to the last time he carried him. Gandalf, however, replies that he can feel the weight of his body return so the answer is …Yes. :

[Bartman]

*Originally posted by smoke *
**I know that this is left open to interpretation, but what’s the dominant interpretation, if there is one at all? Is Gandalf referring to his current incarnation when he drops the “Naked…” line, with the naked being the lack of “disguise”, so to speak, that allows him to show his true power? **

Per the author:
“Naked is alas! unclear. It was meant just literally, ‘Unclothed like a child’ (not disincarnate), and so ready to receive the white robes of the highest.”
Letter #156

Naked in this case simply means naked or nude.

[Qadgop_the_Mercotan]

Oh boy. Ian McKellan naked.

Just for the record, I’m a real JRRT lit geek to the max who also loves the movies. It’s fun to nitpick over stuff, but silly to take it seriously. Even if I do rail occasionally about elves in Helm’s Deep!

Ilu ná vanya, fanya, ëari, i cemen, ar ilya i ëa tessen.

[NoCoolUserName]

*Originally posted by Erroneous *
**In the movie, they meet Gandalf. I’m almost sure of it. Treebeard takes them to see “the White Wizard”, and then Bum-BA-BUM (dramatic music) as Treebeard tosses Merry and Pippin at the feet of Gandalf, who we only see from the back for a second. **

You are correct. Apparently my memory of the true story edited out the events of the movie.

You folk really make a person do some homework. Since my copy of TTT is a VCD (with Chinese subtitles) that I got on my recent trip, there are no chapters, and I had to FF until I found the proper spot.

NCUN (who could have been TheLovelyCynthia but isn’t)

Qadgop, in the scene where Gandalf returns Ian McKellan IS naked, but they only show his shoulders.