This seems like a great idea as far as saving money on gas bills, since I routinely travel about 500 miles per week. I’ve looked in to various electric, alternate fuel, or hybrid cars over the last several years, and think that this is a good combination of new, and reliable old technology. My question here is: can the teeming masses help me to ask the proper questions before I purchase this vehicle? I’d hate to be six months in to this and say, “If only I’d known THAT I’d’ve steered clear of this stupid hybrid!”
Maybe I should clarify, as near as I can tell the maintenence for this car should be about the same as a normal Civic, except for the $3000 to $8000 cost of replacing batteries in 80K to 100K miles.
Mrs. Moto’s Toyota Echo gets 42 hwy/35 city for mileage. This is not much worse than the Civic Hybrid, and is much cheaper. It also has the benefit of using proven technology - namely, the very reliable Toyota 4-cylinder engine.
If you drive that much per week, eventually the cost of maintenance on the vehicle and replacing it will count for more than what you spend on gas. You could take a cue from the cops and cabbies and get a car that can go 250,000 miles before replacement. The Crown Victoria/Grand Marquis (same car, different trim) come to mind.
Have to echo (ha-ha) the straight dope on the Echo gas mileage - I’ve been getting at least 40 mpg in mine. The only thing better is a hybrid and that only if your driving habits are correct for the hybrid.
You see, hybrids get their monster gas mileage in city driving - that low speed stop-n-go stuff. On the open road their performance is no better than standard gasoline power.
So… what sort of driving do you do? Unless you do a LOT of city driving (like, you’re doing those 500 miles a week in Chicago or Boston or some other heavily urban area) you won’t get the top mileage out of a hybrid. If you DO drive in such an area, the great gas mileage combined with the premium price on gas (meaning regular gas - the cost of premium in such markets being obscene) might, indeed, make the hybrid worthwhile.
So… consider your driving habits, as well as maintenance, and so forth and then make your decision.
If you’re wondering about hidden maintenance or depreciation costs, I would highly recommend looking at leasing one. If the lease payments are extraordinarily high, that tells you that the car company believes that it will depreciate much faster than comparable vehicles.
I also suggest you do the math and figure out what that extra gas mileage saves you, and then compare it to the extra costs. For example, if the hybrid will cost you $5000 every 100K for battery replacement, that tells you right there that you’re paying 5 cents per mile for battery costs.
If gas is $2.00 per gallon, and you drive 500 miles in a week in a normal vehicle that gets 30 mpg, then you’ll burn roughly 17 gallons in a week, for a cost of $35. If the hybrid gets an average of 50 mpg, then you’ll burn 10 gallons, for a cost of $20, plus the 5 cents per mile for batteries, for a total cost of $45. So in this example, even if the hybrid gets much better gas mileage, your total driving cost would be $10 more for the hybrid. If gas is less, the hybrid looks worse. On the other hand, you don’t have to shell out the money for the battery for a couple of years, so you’ll earn some interest on it and save a bit there. But you need to look at your own driving habits, the depreciation of the hybrid, the cost of gas in your area, etc.
On the other hand, you need to also factor in intangibles. Are you willing to essentially donate $10 a week for environmental causes? And let’s not forget the deduction we have to make for the Toyota Echo to account for the fact that it is butt-ugly. (-:
According to this column by Click & Clack, even the manufacturers don’t know (or at least won’t tell us) how long the battery would last or how much it would cost to replace them. So it’s a bit difficult to do a cost analysis.
Which is why I recommend leasing one with a guaranteed residual if you want to buy one. That way, the car company takes the risk. If the residual is set too high, you get cheap lease payments and can give it back at the end. If the residual is set too low, you can either not lease, or you can lease and buy the vehicle out at the end of the lease period, at which point we’ll have a better idea of what Hybrids really cost to drive.
If I were going to buy any form of electric or hybrid vehicle today, I’d lease it.
I, too, endorse the Echo, which gets mileage every bit as good as advertised, and sometimes better.
I did think seriously about the hybrid, but decided it just wasn’t affordable for me yet, and I wanted to wait until the technology had a chance to prove itself.
Mind you, I’m confident that by the time I’m ready to trade in my Echo, hybrids will be more affordable and more popular than they are now. And any bugs will be worked out.
But you should buy one, because my strategy depends on everyone but me going hybrid.
**
As a Honda Insight owner I agree completely, Changing driving habits makes a huge difference in gas milage. If you keep your foot down on an insight your looking at no better than 45 MPG in the city. Of course, changing driving habits will affect gas milage on any car.
**
Not on all hybrids. The toyota… yes the insight No chance.
My city MPG in the hybrid averages 57.7 MPG on the interstate I average 68 to 74 pmg.
“Provides a tax credit from $250 to $1,000 for HEVs less than 8,500 lbs gvw, based on maximum available power from the rechargeable energy storage system.
Provides an additional tax credit from $1,000 - $3,500 for light-duty HEVs that meet specific vehicle mileage performance criteria (125-250% increase over MY 2000 city fuel economy). The increase in fuel economy may be calculated by comparing a new HEV to a “like vehicle,” defined to include” a model that is equivalent in body style, transmission, acceleration, drive train and certification by EPA." Vehicles are not required to meet BIN 5, Tier II emission standards."
As I read this info, it seems to me that I get a tax break for owning this Honda Civic Hybrid. The Honda folks say that I get $2K from the IRS for the purchase, but that’s all they know. Will I get a tax break each year that I own the car? Or just the year in which I purchase it?
I just purchased a VW Golf TDI. With automatic transmission, they claim it gets 34mpg city, 45mpg highway. So far I have 400 miles on the car, and have yet to fill up the tank.
I was also eyeballing the Toyota Prius, and was envious of the gas mileage.
When it came down to it, I decided to purchase the diesel engine. That technology (to me) was more established than the hybrid engine.
I was a hair away from buying the Prius, though. I think they are both great options, but long-term, I wasn’t sure. And since I plan on keeping my car long term, that was important to me.
You know, just to give you more options and confuse the issue further.