I am starting to look for a new car since the one I am driving now is quite literally falling apart and while looking around my area for used cars I found a Honda Civic Hybrid within my price range. The problem is that I really don’t know much about hybrid cars. I love the gas mileage of course (which is one of the main things I am looking for in a car) but I have heard things about expensive battery replacements and other potential issues that could come up that would end up making the car not worth it. Problem is I have no idea what is true and what isn’t since many of the horror stories come from people who think that hybrid cars are a secret liberal plot (oh how I wish I were making that up).
So if any dopers can come to my rescue with the straight dope on hybrid cars I would be greatly appreciative.
I have a friend who has a hybrid. He bought the car new, and claims that the added fuel savings will never equal the additional cost for the car. If you want a hybrid for economy reasons, then forget it. The batteries also have a limited life. Exactly how long they last is debatable, and you didn’t say how old the car is, so you may be headed for a very expensive battery replacement job in a few years. We’re talking about a cost of batteries that may exceed the value of the car at that point.
You can get straight gasoline engines with decent mileage, maybe not as good as a hybrid, but at least you won’t have to worry about replacing the batteries.
In your situation (looking for used car, economy, etc) I would say avoid hybrids.
Some people expect the cost of the batteries to come way down, but how much of this expectation is realistic, and how much is just wishful thinking is a serious question. If the batteries don’t become a lot cheaper, it’s going to kill hybrids. Who’s going to buy a used hybrid if they know that, within a year or two, it’s going to need $3000 worth of batteries?
At least with a Prius the batteries are warranteed for 8 years (more in California)
We just don’t know what the cost will be, since none have failed out of warantee.
A taxi (with the older, not as good hybrid system) went 200,000+ miles with no problems
Brian
My husband is a car salesman, and is pretty skeptical of hybrids. He’s done the math, and has yet to see a hybrid vehicle that makes sense financially. Like engineer_comp_geek’s buddy found, the savings in mileage doesn’t add up to enough to make the purchase worth it. (Not that this stops anyone. When gas prices soared, it was not uncommon to see people looking to trade in their gas-guzzling SUVs at a net loss of $10,000 for a car that would save them maybe $1500/year in gas costs.)
He has concerns about the batteries, too. How do people dispose of them? Do we dump them in landfills? Is that really better for the environment than what we’re doing now? Maybe, but nobody’s demonstrated that to his satisfaction yet.
If you’re looking to make a statement, by all means, go for it. But if you’re looking to save money, buy a basic used economy car and take 9 trips instead of 10.
The batteries are replaced in a repair shop and it is to be hoped that by that time a recycling plan will exist. “The people” won’t have to dispose of them.
I wish I had the paper as a cite, but I watched a presentation given in Engineering Economics by some fellow classmates. Even when they used $3.50 (which we all thought was crazy, at the time. I’m paying $3.25 now) for the cost of fuel, the hybrid was still the underdog, economically. This was about 3 years ago, I don’t know what the prices have done since then. It seems only logical that the hybrids will come out ahead, but I still put it at 4-6 years.
The main benefit to a hybrid car, at this point, is that by buying one, you’re subsidizing the companies who are researching how to make them better. The current hybrids aren’t economical, but thanks to the early adopters, the ones 10 or 15 years down the line might be.
If you’re only concern is cost over life then yeah it is probably not going to work out but there are other advantages (I was a very early owner of the Civic Hybrid).
Few emissions. Possibly some tax benefits (depending on where you live). Possibly carpool benefits (depending on where you live). Lower emissions, particularly at those moments when emissions tend to be worst. Less frequent fueling (just on the hassle; I like being able to drive from Oakland to Anaheim without stopping). Encouraging companies that at least getting alternative systems out on the road. It is very quiet. Not all of these are unique to the hybrid of course.
We bought our Hybrid in April 2003 and it is now up to about 140,000 miles. We did need to replace the battery around 100,000 but it was still under warranty (California has legislated a longer warranty on hybrid batteries than the manufacturer default). Otherwise no complaints.
If you’re an aggressive driver, though, you’re going to depress the mileage you get quite a bit.
If it’s purely an economical decision, then it’s a bad idea unless you have a lot of savings. (I have nothing against hybrids; I’m just skeptical as to their long time efficacy and their present claims for the type of driving and driving habits that most drivers have).
How willing are you to change your driving habits? Are you a payment shopper (you shouldn’t be) or do you otherwise budget everything on total auto-related outlay per month? Just add up the expected figures for conventional versus hybrid, but make sure you look for real-world data and not use just the EPA values.
Oh, yeah, how’s the weather and traffic? I recently drove a hybrid and couldn’t get the vehicle into electric-only mode until I realized I had to turn off the AC. It was hot and I was in creeping freeway traffic – the ideal location to stay in electric only for a good, long time and realize some significant savings. I pissed it out the window, though, because in just a few minutes with no AC, I realized my comfort was more important than saving a few drops of a widely available and still cheap commodity. (I really did like the car though, and I’d consider one just for the this-is-neat factor, but I’ve said that ever since the EV1 was around).
If things get really bad (gas > $6.00/gallon) there is going to be a huge market for cars with tiny (1.1 liter displacement) engines. I expect that people will get used to driving them-they are not bad at all. what happens to the extant fleet of gas-hungry vehicles? Suppose you could buy a Landrover for $5000-you could drive for less money, even considering the cost of the gas. You can easily save more money than you can with a hybrid-but limiting your driving.
If you are going for cheapest, you’d be better off with a 2 door Yaris or for than matter a motorcycle (cheaper and good gas mileage) or heck, a bicycle (cheaper yet, and VERY good mileage).
The reason I compared the Prius to the Camry as it most closely matches it in size. (the Prius is probably the better cargo hauler)
When I got my Prius, I was looking for a car that had a little more room but no worse gas mileage than my 1993 Geo Prizm.
Does anybody know anything about climate-related effects on hybrid efficiency? I have read anecdotal stories (on a Ford Escape message board) that their fuel economy was much worse in cold winter months, when the gasoline engine had to run most of the time to keep the battery and cabin warm. During cold weather, some people reported fuel economy almost equal to the 100% gasoline powered Escape.
Does anyone take that into account in cost-efficiency calculations? For me, at about 53.6° N, if true, it would make a big difference in whether a hybrid is “worth it” or not. Combine this with the issue re: air conditioning mentioned by Balthisar, and I don’t think the hybrid engine would make any difference at all!
The Hybrid tax credit can make the vehicle cost-effective. However, check the IRS website to see what the credit is, first (There are no more credits for Toyota cars, so they are no longer as good of a deal), and of course make sure the AMT isn’t going to come around and bite you in the ass.
Thus, the Honda Hybrid Civic seems to be the best way of “making your $$ back” by driving a hybrid. Since you like it, buy it.
Sadly, the Prius no longer gets a Tax credit. No other current hybrids come close to the milage of these two.
Thanks for all the info! It looks like I will probably stick to a small economy car for the time being. I really wish I could buy a hybrid just to make a statement, but I am not currently in a position where I could afford to do that. So for the time being I will get a fuel efficient car which at least will be significantly better for the environment (and simultaneously my pocketbook) than my '92 Oldsmobile sedan.