[QUOTE=Barbarian]
I still insist that if you’re only doing a 10 mile commute, and you aren’t going on a highway, a 50cc scooter makes a great option. (I’d also like to know where a 50 cc scooter isn’t included in a general car driving license.)
[/QUOTE]
I know it isn’t in Washington State, but it took some digging to find it:
[QUOTE=Washington State Law]
(1) No person may drive either a two-wheeled or a three-wheeled motorcycle, or a motor-driven cycle unless such person has a valid driver’s license specially endorsed by the director to enable the holder to drive such vehicles.
(2) However, a person sixteen years of age or older, holding a valid driver's license of any class issued by the state of the person's residence, may operate a moped without taking any special examination for the operation of a moped.
[/QUOTE]
There’s another section of the law I saw in my search that was very specific in its definition of what was a “Motorcycle” vs a “Motor-Driven Cycle” vs a “Foot Scooter”. Scooters as have been identified in this thread could fall into the “Motor-Driven Cycle” or “Foot Scooter” category. It seems pretty clear that “Foot Scooters” aren’t intended for real commutes, though. Basically, if it’s supposed to go on the road in traffic, and its not a moped, you need an endorsement.
With the proviso concerning mopeds, it seems pretty clear to me that the exclusion of 50cc scooters is an oversight. I wouldn’t be surprised to hear the local law enforcement either looks away when scooters go by, or are outright ignorant of the actual laws. Nonetheless, in my MSF class they made a big point of telling us that scooters are considered the same as motorcycles under Washington State law. I’ll go with what my MSF instructors told me - after all, they were right about everything else
[QUOTE=Algher]
Good point - I can only honestly offer in my defense that I read this originally somewhere semi legit, and that was a quickie Google found for me.
Thanks for the MUCH better research and cite!
[/QUOTE] It got a laugh out of me and prompted me to look, so thanks for posting your original response!
[QUOTE=Leviosaurus]
Well, you haven’t disproved my statement. There are motorcycles which get 70 mpg, which beats the hell out of a Prius. There are motorcycles that get worse than 20 mpg, but they’re still better than SUVs. In general, motorcycles get better mileage than cars.
[/quote]
You wrote that motorcycles are “unquestionably better fuel economy” than cars. I said that’s not true in all cases. I gave an example of a case where a particular car gets better mileage than a particular motorcycle. Therefore, my statement is true. Everything else you have said is irrelevant with regard to my statement.
Again, I never claimed that you said that in post #65. Why would I be interested in pointing out something that I never claimed to be true?
I “evaded” nothing. You said motorcycles are “unquestionably better fuel economy” than cars. And I said that’s not true in all cases. You are still confused.
[QUOTE=Barbarian]
I’m sure there are a few vehicles that have EPA ratings for fuel efficiency that are better than what I get on my bike – but they are few and far between, and cost a hell of a lot more than my Bandit.
[/quote]
Brand new, yes. Used, no. You could get a Geo Metro, Civic VX, or Toyota Echo that get incredibly good mileage, probably better mileage than your bike (the Geo anyway), and most likely less money. They’re not “far between”; I see ads for them all the time.
Nothing against bikes, of course. If that’s what you like, then go for it. There’s more than one way to skin a cat, and a motorcycle isn’t practical for everyone.
The actual efficiency of my 650cc motorcycle is 40.7 to 44.3 MPG. I beat everything except hybrids and diesels. What do I win? A heavier wallet, ABS brakes, and no mechanical problems that stem from driving a decade-old vehicle
[QUOTE=Barbarian] Leviosaurus that’s mighty weird, especially since I know there’s a scooter place in the San Juan that rents to anyone who can drive a car.
[/QUOTE]
shrug Like I said, it’s what they told me in the MSF class, it appears to be the law on the books as far as I’ve found. Frankly, 50cc scooters should be allowed, IMO.
My credit card receipts list how much gas I put in the tank, and I write down the odometer reading…
[/QUOTE]
O.K., thanks. I was just trying to ascertain if we’re using EPA calculations or personal calculations. The person I mentioned who bought the Geo Metro for $200? He gets 50 mpg.
[QUOTE=lowbrass]
The dealers are either sold out of the fuel-efficient cars, or they’re gouging the prices to the tune of thousands of dollars over MSRP (yes, over MSRP, not over invoice). They’re sure not gonna make it easy for us.
[/QUOTE]
Ya know, you’re right on there. For giggles, I looked for a used Jetta TDI in my area and found one with almost 15,000 miles on it for $26k, and it was already a year old. I built a non-TDI 2008 jetta on the VW website with all the possible bells and whistles I could ever want or need, and it was only $28k MSRP!. No matter which way you turn in this deal, you’re fucked.
The oil bastards gouge you for their outrageous profits no matter what you’re driving, the car-making and selling bastards stick it to you if the car uses less gas, cause everyone wants/needs that, so of course they’ll be more than willing to sell it to you for thousands over MSRP (as lowbrass points out).
That’s why I’m on my motorcycle as often as I can be.
This coal sauce comes off the earth we all live on, and everything you do, buy, eat, wear, use or watch is touched by oil. It is, IMO, one of the most important elements in the world right now. It drives every economic engine in every country in the world, and yet it is in the hands of profiteers who have assholes like Bush in their pockets. Just pisses me right off. I’ll gather the torches and pitchforks, someone else gather the villagers, we’re stormin’ the exxon.
