Being a resident along the Gulf Coast in a prime hurricane prone destruction area, I’m looking into buying a 10Kw - 15Kw generator. Many of the “run your home” type available in this area are based on Natural gas or propane. Figuring that a cat 4 or 5 strike would mean no electricity for 2 weeks or more, I am wondering about the availability of gas service. One comment I heard was, “using natural gas driven generators is a horrible idea because you switch your dependence from one utility to another.” This being the case, does anyone know how often gas service is disrupted by a hurricane strike? I know that after Betsy hit New Orleans all utilities were out for about two weeks. I’m wondering how much the system has improved in the last 30 years.
Right now I am leaning toward buying a 10Kw diesel generator. Most of the factors such as fuel consumption and cost point to this being the best case. So I put forth the following scenario. You want to supply at least central air conditioning plus a few lights and a fridge/freezer with electricity for one to two weeks. The event causing this is a major hurricane landfall which takes out major sections of the electric grid with repair time being unknown but guesstimated at 2 weeks. Flooding occurs in most of the area, some places being heavily flooded. What would be the best bet for this scenario?
So it’s down to diesel or natural nas. Anyone have good info on which is a better decision?
During Frances, Florida’s main port was closed, so there was some trouble getting gasoline into the state. I live in Boca Raton, and I think most stations were out for a while, but I work in Ft Lauderdale which was hit much less and I had no problem getting gas there for my car (I don’t have a generator).
A buddy of mine who lives in West Palm Beach, which was hit pretty bad, was able to get gas for his generator, but he was pretty lucky. He knew some “semi-secret” place to get gas that not everybody knew about, I think maybe it’s a Costco.
So if you choose to purchase a generator, what is stopping you from having it tested, primed and fully fueled at the beginning of hurricane season? So when a hurricane hits and knocks out the power you already have your power supply and adequate fuel way before everything happens and you are not scrambling at the last minute, just like everyone else.
When I lived on the Mississippi Gulf coast many eons ago, my landlord had an extra fully pressurized propane tank, in addition the the regular propane tanks he had for cooking and heating. He checked it once a month but never used it. When I asked, the answer was simple. It was his insurance during hurricane season.
Get some lanterns or oil lamps, stock a supply of fuel for them, and leave the electric lights off. Ditto all appliances. Conservation becomes very important in these circumstances. Run just the absolute essentials.
Yes, you want to keep the freezer running - and if it’s just a fridge/freezer and you minimize how often you open it keeping fuel on hand for a generator to run it for two weeks is practical. I’ll take your word that AC is also essential - that’s a power-hungry thing. You may not want to keep your ambient temperature at 72 - crank it up to five degrees below outside temperature, which will bring relief and cut the humidity. If it’s central AC block off vents in several rooms and keep just your bedroom cool - the less air mass you try to cool off, and the less the difference in temperature between that air mass and what’s outside the less energy you’ll need to do the job.
NG/propane would be the way to go for the application you describe, IMHO.
Compared to diesel, you have no fuel filter to change, no worry about fuel contamination or aging, generally a cleaner operating system. Regardless of what fuel you choose, proper venting and interconnection with the main power distribution panelboard is essential for your safety and that of power company workers. Unless you’re highly skilled, it is not a DIY job.
Also, a power plant of that size should be exercised-run every week or every other week for a half-hour or an hour. Ignore it until the lights go out and you may be SOL.
Just in general, though, consider where your thermostat is on a typical home HVAC system. If the cool air nevers hits it, the A/C will never stop running, regardless of what you set the temperature too! Ditto-in-reverse for the heat.
It’s probably going to be 95 to 100 degrees with 100% humidity since we are talking New Orleans in summer time.
I’ll most likely have multiple family members over including several elderly ones.
I’m interested if people know how badly gas service is disrupted by a hurricane strike and the problems associated with a diesel generator compared to a natural/propane gas generator.
Not knowing the protocol of your local NG utility, it is hard to predict. That said, it is reasonable to presume that some portions of a gas distribution system would be shut off, as many appliances are connected using flexible corrugated lines which may be damaged when water intrudes and moves the appliance.
Speak to your local NG utility and get their word on shutoffs during times of emergency-evidence from other locations isn’t really informative for where you sit.
One practical problem for gasoline powered generators is storage of fuel. A friend has a gasoline powered generator and is now concerned about the many cans of gas he has stored in his garage.
With any gasoline or diesel fueled generator, deterieration of stored fuel is an issue. Gasoline loses vapors and goes bad, diesel gells and grows bacteria. However, there are stabilizing products for both. Gasoline is dangerous to store in a garage and is illegal in many places. Have a fire and see what your insurance company says about the 60 gallons of gas in what remains of the garage!
My standby generator runs on propane, but in Missouri hurricanes aren’t a problem. I’m prepared for outages caused by thunderstorms and ice storms.
If you have a way to store, and use/replace diesel fuel, it might be a good way to go. See how much the generator consumes and how long you expect to be without power. That will give you some idea of how much you need to store.
If your concern is to run a A/C system in a major power disruption I really hope you and your kind die soon. Other then that AFAIK Nat Gas has been dependable, but wit more people turning to generators for power disruptions I think it might not be all that’s cracked up to be when the ‘big one hits’.
Propane is alost idea as you own what you have and is a very good fuel. But you are limited as to what you can store.
Diseal is sort of a backup fuel, but might be impossiable to start at low temp’s.
Gasoline, even if stabilalized, has a limited life. It appears to be the cheapest way to go, but then again the storage of fuel introdruces some risk.
The OP doesn’t mention anything, so maybe it’s just comfort for the spoiled, but there ARE people with medical conditions for whom AC is more than a mere luxury. Where the Big Blackout hit last year from New York to Ohio my elderly mother had to be evacuated to an area with power - with her heart problems and emphysema being forced to stay in 90 degree heat and high humidty could easily be fatal after more than a few hours. That’s just one example. There are people dependent on ventilators, and various other mechanical devices, in order to live.
I love my mom, and I’m not eager to bury her
So yeah, I found your comment offensive. Jerk. :mad:
(Boy, are you lucky this isn’t the Pit or I’d really let you know how I feel !!!)
You can store propane in a tank - you don’t have to depend on gas utilities for a supply. I have a 500 gallon tank for my heaters. If you call your local Amerigas dealer they can probably estimate the tank size necessary to power a generator for a couple of weeks.
I chose a diesel powered 30kw system because it can power the whole house, including a deep freeze, two refrigerators, a/c, electric stove and water heater, etc. Fuel storage is not a problem - it’s plumbed into the 750 gallon tank that also serves as storage for fuel for the tractor.
Maintenance is no big deal: change the primary and secondary fuel filters and the oil and oil filters every 200-300 hours of operation. Diesel fuel will store for extended periods (up to two years) without gelling or growing algae if you use storage stabilizer diesel fuel additives (available at marine supply stores such as Boater’s World or West Marine). I also run it for a few hours each month to exercise the engine and dynamo.
There is some useful information regarding generator fuel choices on GoPower.com.
My apologies to The Long Road and any one else I may have offended I (and my post) was out of place and needless to say I don’t mean you any harm - but I’m saying it anyway.
Something like that.
Anyway if we can step back into the OP
The central a/c is most likely the biggest power draw in your house, it is in mine. This will cause you to buy a generator ‘oversized’ for your house. When not running the central a/c you will be using this generator at very low loads, and in general generators are the most inefficient at lower loads (consuming precious fuel at a greater rate then a smaller unit to do the same thing).
May I suggest instead of running a central a/c off a generator, having a wall or window a/c instead for such emergencies. This should take care anyone who is medically required to have their climate controlled and has one additional benefit, your generator will be smaller and cheaper (far offsetting the cost of the small a/c) and will be more efficient (saving fuel).
The Long Road, I’m in about the same circumstances as you, wrestling with the same decision and for more or less the same reason, though I’m the one that needs the electricity and AC. I remember Betsy and the reconstruction well, and the two weeks or more without power. I’m also located in the same general area as you, though I’m probably a bit more rural and would expect to be among the last to have electricty restored.
Since I’m leaning toward propane, is there some reason that you seem to have arbitrarily ruled it out? I’m ask only to help me with my own decision.
Kreek, I settled on diesel or natural gas for a couple of reasons:
For diesel, the reasons were because the fuel is cheaper than gasoline, the generator is simpler so it would be easier to repair, a diesel generator is much more fuel efficient and diesel stores longer. Diesel is also mcuh safer to store compared to gasoline.
Natural Gas was considered instead of propane because of fuel storage. Having a propane tank behind my house large enough to run a generator for a week or two might be illegal in my area. No matter what the law is, buying a tank that size has to be very expensive and I can imagine the back of my house being blown off in the middle of the night from a lightning strike, a vandal trying to steal it or a dozen other scenarios.
For some reason, there are a lot of posts in this thread about gasoline generators which was never even considered.
A diesel generator will be much noisier but I am planning on making an enclosure to muffle the sound a bit based on some designs I’ve seen on the web.
I’m totally off base now because my wife’s computer crashed while I was typing this and she needed me to fix it. Anyway, I’m leaning toward a 5.5Kw generator and a window unit for the largest area per bird’s second post. I’m sure I am forgetting plenty which will need another post. BTW, I found a 5.5Kw dielel from China for $1500. Not a bad deal.
Thanks for the information. I may think this out again. Since I have a diesel pickup, I should be able to deal with the old-fuel problem. Incidentally, I had suspected you may have local ordinance problems with propane.
Anyway, good luck with your project. And try to stay out of any contra-flow traffic jams on I-10.
