"Gattaca" - what does "invalid" mean?

Yes it does as a morality play, just like gattaca does although not as well sung of course. {high school understudy scarecrow}.

Well, actually, the implication is that Jerome stepped in front of the car in a suicide attempt, though perhaps it was also with the view that his genes didn’t guarantee success because he’d only taken silver at a (presumably Olympic) swimming competition.

I recently watched this film and enjoyed it, just a couple of comments on the above.

I seem to recall that Jerome hints (or outright states) that despite his excellent genes and advantages in life he was never truly happy or contented with his lot. I can’t recall if he gave a reason why not although it may have been because nothing was ever really a challenge for him, it was just assumed that he would excel and he didn’t really have any trouble doing so.

Jerome excelled genetically but was lacking in spirit (which he rectifies by proxy, in helping Vincent succeed), Vincent was lacking genetically but excelled in spirit.

I think its also hinted that despite being the golden boy Anton has never really fulfilled his potential, doesn’t the head scientist sneer at him for being a mere policeman? Suggesting that law-enforcement isn’t really a respectable career in that world for the genetically elite.

These are–along with the point about suicide above–good points. I love this movie, but I almost never rewatch movies, so I’ve only seen it about three times, and the last time was many many years ago. Sorry for any errors in my memory!

I’ve never seen Gattaca, so I can’t weigh in on most of this conversation, but this argument caught my eye, because it’s so blatantly counter-historical. A society that assumes genetics determine capability could never last? You really think that? Are you familiar with the term “hereditary rule?” Or how about “aristocracy?” Most of human society throughout history has run on the principle that breeding (which is genetics, before we knew what a gene was) determined character and ability. Hell, fifty years ago, a lot people thought you could determine character and ability just by looking at the color of someone’s skin. Both of these ideas are transparently stupid, but they were bedrock principles for societies that lasted for centuries. People are remarkably good at ignoring evidence in favor of doctrine, particularly when the doctrine advantages them in some way.

Are you from the future or something?:wink:

Seriously I don’t understand how someone could have a problem with what was the element of the movie that was the most realistic.

Seems to me regardless of how plausible the movie’s drama is, the concept of genetic engineering causing society to stratify is a plausible one, and one likely to be of real concern before the end of this century.

Heck, the “Genesis Project” of Star Trek II still looks cool because now we have some idea of how large scale terraforming might be accomplished (though it’s still centuries away at best), more so than in 1982.

Sorry if this is offtopic - rewatched Gattaca recently and something keeps bugging me about Anton …

Why doesn’t anybody in the police know he’s Vincents brother?! The police knows Vincents identity, just not what identity he has borrowed. In fact I think theres a remark to the effect that they think Vincent has no living relatives. Has Anton done something similar to the “borrowed ladder” to erase the fact that he has an invalid brother … ?

How exactly would law enforcement know in modern times who your siblings are?
There is no sibling database to look it up in, hell my sister not only doesn’t share a last name she wasn’t even born in the same country as me. If you don’t tell them and your friends don’t during interviews they will never know, and neither of them are eager to tell.

The cops would never assume someone with good genes like Anton would have a invalid brother, don’t be silly!

It’s the giant, veiny forehead that gives me away every time.

How did he get back? :stuck_out_tongue: Maybe his brother carried him. A silly pompous line.

Let me pitch you a story about the future where we are technologically advanced enough to frequently send people into space (for some unexplained reason), but only the best kinds of people - priests - get to go. But we’ve also discovered that left-handed people are eeevil and therefore can’t become priests. Our hero, born left-handed, learns how to fool the system by holding his dick with his right hand when he pees (Gattaca quote: “For future reference, right handed men don’t hold it with their left. Just one of those things.” Silly). Sounds like an interesting premise? No it doesn’t, does it, because it’s just too stupid. It might be well-acted, well-shot, etc but it’s not a good, compelling, story.

A quick fix for the story might have been that they had discovered that all mental illnesses were genetically determined and that you could predict with a degree of accuracy which people might be susceptible to mental illnesses. That would potentially effect your job performance and be a real concern for employers. I could see discrimination happening in all areas of employment on that basis.

Wait, all discrimination among human societies originates with a rational basis?

Only a Welshman would believe that!

No, it can be based on any whim, like, as I actually said in my last post, being left-handed, for example. The question is what kind of discrimination would make for an interesting, thought-provoking, story.

When you don’t understand a line’s meaning, the fault may be with the line. But if everyone else understands it, the fault’s probably not with the line.

The point of that line, as I already stated, is that he gives tasks everything he’s got. He doesn’t hold back out of a fear that he’ll need some energy for later tasks. Instead, when that later task comes, he finds the energy.

No, his brother doesn’t carry him. On the contrary, he carries his brother, because that’s what needs doing.

The line exemplifies Vincent’s will.

No, your story doesn’t sound good. That’s the difference between your story and Gattaca. This is a particularly ill-framed attempt at argument by analogy.

Gattaca’s premise–that people will face discrimination because of their genes–is already a real concern, to the extent that there are already laws to prevent such discrimination in certain areas. The movie’s premise, unlike yours, is plausible and thought-provoking.

In the same clip I linked to earlier, the doctor or technician who performs Vincent’s first genetic test, moments after he’s born, announces “Neurological conditions: 60% probability. Manic depression: 42% probability. Attention deficit disorder: 89% probability.”

A Welshman, a left-handed priest and a Gattican walked into a bar…

Wait - a society where left-handedness is considered evil is a stupid idea? :confused:

I thought of pointing that out, but didn’t want to be gauche (sinister, left behind, whatever)

By choice.

Jude Law’s character won the silver medal, which shattered his worldview of being the best. In the suicidal depression that followed the competition he tried to commit suicide by car, but failed. Left paralyzed by the attempt, he wallowed in his suicidal funk throughout the movie and finally finished the job at the end.