Many a time, including on Six Feet Under and most recently in the “decoding gay speak” MPSIMS thread, I’ve seen the notion that if someone answers the question “Are you a top or a bottom?” with “I’m versatile”, it really means “I’m a bottom”. I’ve also noticed, on gay dating sites and so forth, that tops seem to be few and far between while bottoms are in plentiful supply.
To me, this is incomprehensible. I don’t like anal sex at all, but I can at least imagine being a top. No way is anyone shoving anything up my ass; that hurts! Sure, different strokes for different folks and all that, but how come it’s so lopsided? If it actually is, that is.
While we’re on the subject, what’s with this “tops and bottoms” business anyway? How come it’s so divided and compartmentalized? On the aforementioned gay dating sites, there are scads of guys whose presentations say things like “You fuck me, I do NOT fuck you, I blow you, you do NOT blow me”. I can understand not wanting to give a blowjob (many people don’t like performing oral sex (which is also a bit of a mystery to me as I love it, but never mind)), but who the hell can object to getting one?
I guess what I’m trying to ask is: How come gay sex seems so much more ritualized than straight sex?
Don’t take personal ads as any kind of valid picture of the gay community as a whole. I don’t know of any numbers, so I can’t make any sweeping statements about what gay guys as a whole are into, but it’s sort of a joke within the gay community that personal ads are not representative. (Especially with regards to the “straight-acting” gay man, a miserable creature whose habitat is the personal ad.)
I have noticed this numerical disparity myself, but I think probably most gay men are versatile within their relationships. Personal ads may feature a higher percentage of guys who are into particular things just because if you’ve got a specific requirement in a partner, it may be harder to find that out in the real world.
This is my opinion, and almost don’t want to post it because of the utter hatred I will get, but here goes.
IMHO homosexual’s can be divided into 2 groups. The gender misidentified or gender confused and people with misdirected homosexual sexual desires.
The gender misidentified/confused would be people who are one gender but are wired like the opposite. The extreme of this group are the ones who go for sex change operations, but they’re are many more who don’t. People desire opposite gender relationships (this is normal), this would mean for these people, either a opposite gender person who also is gender misidentified (male who feels female finding a female who feels male), or a same gender person who is not (male who feels female finding a male).
Misdirected sexual desires would include a subset of homosexuality. These people obviously like people of the same gender, and might end up as a top or bottom in the case of males.
I would WAG that the gender misidentified for males would be bottoms by default, the people with misdirected sexual desires disorder could go either way, so we will have more bottoms then tops. Add to that that I wag that gender misidentify is more common then misdirected sexual desires and I would assume this may be the answer to the OP.
I’d ask you for evidence, but like most of what you post, it’s not really even comprehensible, let alone potentially accurate. I don’t see why people feel entitled to have opinions about things they have zero understanding of.
Topping is a lot of work, and it takes me a long time to reach climax. While my partner loves what he thinks is my stamina, I sometimes wear myself out to the point where I’m no longer interested in reaching orgasm any more. On the few occasions when I will flip, I find it nice to be able to just lay there and receive without exhausting myself. So, based on that I can unserstand why many prefer to be a bottom. My anecdotal experience (friends, chat rooms, personal profiles) leads me to believe that bottoms outnumber tops by something like 4:1.
I consider myself versatile even though I top 95% of the time.
I would think it’s much less structured than straight sex. I mean, how often does a straight man bottom for his wife?
I don’t understand this. I think most people, gay or straight, are plain vanilla (I think this is what you mean by ritualized).
Kanicbird, since this isn’t the pit, I’ll try to keep this civil.
You’ve been peddling your homophobic crap around here for a long time. And every time, it’s always the same incoherent babbling that is totally unsubstantiated, and comes out of some private little twisted reality of your own making.
Please get it through your head that the only way to “fight ignorance” is to back up your assertions with facts. If you think you’re right and everyone else is ignorant, prove it.
When you keep regurgitating the same hateful nonsense ad nauseum, it gets a bit tiring.
I’m a straight guy, and I can second everything that Patty O’Furniture said and for the same reasons, especially the part about straight sex being more compartmentalized.
Maybe it seems this way because sex, in its different forms, is generally more openly discussed by gay people than by straight people. In order to discuss it there has to be a commonly understood vocabulary, and like (or complimentary)-minded people associate together. Also (as a WAG), ‘rituals’ can be a constraint that facilitates the whole socialization process (like Southern Baptists who only have sex in positions that have been approved by the Southern Baptist Conference, to give an admittedly silly and unfair example.) IMHO, it’s not so much that it’s more ritualized as that there is a greater potential for variety than there is in most heterosexual relationships.
Judging from my (fairly extensive) sex life, I would say that the groups I’ve come across most often are those who can either top or bottom, and those who don’t care to have anal sex at all, or rarely (which I think is far larger than is usually supposed).
As for topping and bottoming, the best I can do is that it’s a matter of taste. There may be something to the “versatile means bottom” thing, but I think it’s more of “bottom means versatile.” It’s been my (completely unscientific) impression that a guy who identifies as a top is less likely to bottom than a bottom is to top. I only can think of one guy (an ex) who’s told me that he loves getting fucked but refuses to top.
(An odd data point is that I consider myself a bottom – in that I would like to get fucked – but it’s so painful for me that if there’s any anal sex going on, which there rarely is, I’m generally topping.)
I really don’t think that’s as uncommon as all that. For one thing, I think most gay guys consider oral to be “actually sex” in a way that straight people often don’t, in my experience. If I go to bed with a guy and “all” that happens is oral, I definitely consider myself to have had sex. (I once had one woman plonkingly inform me that I hadn’t lost my virginity when I thought I had, because that had been “just” oral sex.)
For another thing, yes, oral sex (under certain circumstances) is safer than anal sex (under similar circumstances).
Really, it’s different for everyone. Myself, as stated, I do long to get fucked, but the painfulness gets in the way of that. I love anything that’s similar to getting fucked, such as – oy, there needs to be some word for this and I can’t remember what it is, but basically he rubs it against me as though he were fucking me. I’m moving as though I’m getting fucked, and we get really into it. So yes, it’s not just the laziness factor… although that can apply some nights
I hope you don’t think I’m being rude for asking, but how does the mechanics of that work? Until now I’ve always assumed (Oh, Og… I’m one of the ignorant! Dammit…) that to have anal sex you’d probably have to be lying on your stomach.
Also - and I really will appreciate if this is way too personal a question to answer, but I’ve wondered for a while - wouldn’t anal sex make you really, really want to go to the toilet? I once had a rectal exam at the doctor’s and boy, did I want to dash to the loo after. I have this horrible feeling that if I’d ever been successful at anal sex (and I’ve tried it once or twice with previous boyfriends, but it was way too painful to manage) I’d probably last about five seconds into it before having to call it off and run to the toilet.
Actually, it works fine lying on your side too, spooning, so to speak. I’ve been told that’s the best position for first-timers as it’s less painful. You can also do it cowgirl-style apparently, but it would take a braver man than I to try it.
Well, if the heterosexual equivalent is to lie there while the woman’s on top, I’d have to say that 99% of the men I’ve had sex with love that. (Of course, I date “effeminate” (whatever the hell that means) men who tend towards the submissive end of the spectrum, but I don’t think my experiences are that skewed.)
But with all the men I’ve slept with (IANAGM, I am a hetero (mostly) woman), there’s been a great deal of flexibility - sometimes I’m on top, sometimes he is. Sometimes I’m more active and dominant, sometimes he is. I’d never qualify for myself in a personal ad that I’d only have sex on top.
Well, two things. One is that anal sex works quite well doggy-style, where the “bottom” is actually up on his or her knees a bit, which leaves plenty of room for masturbation or a “reach-around”, wherein the top reaches around and masturbates his partner while thrusting.
The other thing, which I didn’t know until watching Queer As Folk, is that anal sex is possible face-to-face, with the bottom’s legs spread wide and the pelvis tilted just a bit further forward than a woman’s for vaginal intercourse. I’m not sure why I never thought of that, since occasionally during vaginal intercourse, the penis will slip out and get frighteningly close to entering through the anus. (“Frighteningly” only because penetration without lube and done quickly would be WAAAAY too ouchy.) From this face-to-face position, the bottom’s penis is well accessible to both partners.
Yes, it does, but only when it’s over. It’s a good idea (especially for a women, for infection reasons) to wash up pretty quickly afterward, so you’re not spreading e colii everywhere.
Damn. I just realized it’s been 10 years since I had anal. Wish the husband wasn’t so squicked out about it.
Isn’t it more of a a dominent/submissive thing? I hate to use those terms because of the S&M subculture but I’ve always thought that being a “top” was more of an aggressive role (the one doing the f’ing) and being a bottom was a more passive role. As a generalization, haven’t most men (both straight and gay) have been conditioned to be the “doer”?
I’ve also heard of a threesome where the man was having traditional sex with a woman while simultaneously giving another guy a blowjob. That seemed odd to me as the act of giving a blowjob seems to be the more submissive role where traditional intercourse is more dominant role.
Well, that incident should tip you off that the analysis in your previous paragraph may not be entirely on the money.
As for me, I don’t ever want to be the bottom during anal sex, but I do want to give blowjobs. In fact, having vaginal sex with a woman while performing oral sex on a man sounds incredibly hot, if I can figure out the logistics.
matt_mcl, the word for the activity you described is “frottage.” I love it too.
My take on the whole “versatile = bottom” thing has to do with what Ruby said about dominance/submission. I think a lot of guys who prefer bottoming don’t want to come across as totally submissive, so they claim to enjoy “doing” as well.
I’ve known a great many bottoms over the years who refuse to top, and in fact don’t even care to orgasm while bottoming. I never did understand what bottoms get out of it anyway; it does hurt, and isn’t having an orgasm the entire point of sex? I can see pleasing your partner in order to get your “turn,” but no pleasure for yourself at all?
