Not voting because my vote would be for “it depends”
Jokingly, I’d say it depends on who’s semi-naked – if it’s women, bring it on! Guys, no I’m not really interested… (Hey, I’m straight so it won’t actually lead to anything, but a guy can look, right? Not to mention I’m married as well, so double whammy! :smack:**)
More seriously – I think most Pride Parades (and I’ve marched in Tel Aviv Pride Parades, because it’s the best party in town and there are probably 3 straight people marching for every gay one. Oh, and because I want to show my support for the community even if I’m not part of it) are just a party. In other words, fun, and a good way to bring attention to the cause.
OTOH, as much as it bothers me on a moral level, there is no denying that some people will use any and all excuses to stoke their own homophobia, including claiming that “we’re not homophobic, it’s just those disgusting parades that annoy us! Oh and it proves we can’t trust those people” :rolleyes::rolleyes:
Yeah, in an ideal world the response should be “fuck them sideways with the blunt instrument of their preference.” But we don’t live in an ideal world yet and the haters are still far too many and with far too much clout…
Not all Gay Pride “parades” are the same. An ex called me from Latvia when she was at a Pride parade in Riga. It was more a political rally with many, many people protesting the parade, shouting slogans and holding up signs calling for, amongst other things, the killing of all homosexuals.
Not voting because there ought to be a “Both/it depends” option. Visibility is good; reinforcing people’s views that gay men are all drag queens is less so. And of course the media will focus on the one person acting outrageously and ignore the 99 quiet and dignified marchers which also doesn’t help. I’d love to see an entire gay pride parade of people dressed like middle-class suburbanites (chinos on the march!), just to blow people’s minds.
So I dunno. But then I’m not big on parades and pageantry in general, so I suppose that colors my views somewhat. And at least gay pride parades don’t involve green (urk) beer.
You have a 15 year old baton twirler wearing a leotard, that doesn’t mean the next group can have a 50 year old man dressed as a French Maid, or a 50 year old woman dressed as a dominatrix because we’ve sexualized the event.
Parades aren’t events to “be yourself”. The baton twirler isn’t being herself, she’s putting on a structured performance as a member of her school’s marching band. I’m not sure what the guys wearing nothing but a speedo, or the guy in the fairy costume, or the cross dressing guy with the pink feather boa are doing, besides reinforcing a unfair stereotype of gay men as hypersexualized weirdos.
Of course, it does depend on the purpose of the parade. If it’s to show yourselves and promote a better relationship with the straight majority, it should be toned down. If it’s to be a no holds barred F/U to the assholes who’ll hate you anyway, bring it on!
Yeah. Plus they’re getting less and less cartoonish, both in reality and as reported; nowadays you’re as likely to see extended families with everybody from the grandparents to a couple of babies as to see that dozen guys in drag which used to be the one thing news programs showed. Or to see an extended family which includes a dude in drag and someone who leaves half the onlookers wondering whether it was a she or a he.
The Toronto Pride Parade is 32 years old this year and the community attitudes have changed pretty radically. Less than 10 years ago it was a big deal when the first chief of police marched in the parade and for the last couple of years it’s been a huge deal that our current mayor skips it every year with flimsy excuses.
I grew up with racist homophobic relatives and things like the pride parade were a huge help to me in realizing that people are just people and helping me to distance myself from my relatives beliefs. Even without going to the parade itself most of the time (I hate crowds) the discussions that the coverage triggers spreads awareness that for the most part these are just people who want to live their lives.
Okay, but here’s the thing. It’s nice that you were a straight/cis ally at parades and all. But Pride does not exist to convince you that we are “just like you”. It does not exist so that you will give us permission to exist. It does not exist for you at all. It’s for us. To say we do exist and we don’t need your stamp of approval just to continue being who we are. Hell yeah, it’s a protest. It’s protesting the idea that we should be closested and invisible (or dead). It’s not about winning rights, though.
Because you know what? A parade of heteronormative looking gay and trans people was never going to convince anyone of anything. When it comes to convincing “average Joe” that we ought to have the same rights as him, his heart and mind is changed through day to day interactions, and knowing queer people on a personal level. No parade can do that. And no parade can take it away.
I live in London. The last GPP I saw included a man in drag with his head in a birdcage. A parade of people dressed in Banana Republic-wear would certainly blow my mind by comparison.
I don’t know, I feel like it SHOULD be in some ways harmful, but not for the reasons described in the poll. I feel like by making a big deal about it, you’re drawing attention to it as something unusual. Society treats homosexuality as unusual already (which, granted, it is STATISTICALLY), but uses that as an excuse to discriminate. So by drawing attention to it, it feels like you’re just reinforcing its oddness. It seems like if everybody was just open about “yeah, I’m homosexual, so what?” And dropped the topic as if it were no big deal, then it would be no big deal. In other words, it feels like treating it as something to have attention drawn to it is only going to make it be viewed as more odd, whereas just not flaunting it, but also not concealing it (meaning, kiss in public, hold hands, openly admit you’re gay, whatever) will make people not really notice it after a while.
HOWEVER, this is why I’m spearheading any civilization-altering movements. Clearly before there was any sort of movement, homosexuals were marginalized and ignored way more than they were now, so in reality I find that despite what I would think would happen – they’re helpful. So I’m probably describing the way things ought to be (homosexuality is no big deal, nobody feels compelled to hide it, but neither to draw specific attention to it) rather than how they are (homosexuality is no big deal, though people act like it is so people feel compelled to hide it and drawing specific attention to it helps step things in the right direction towards acceptance).
not weird, just mistaken. No one is “defining themselves by whom they like to sleep with,” they’re openly acknowledging that it’s one facet of who they are and that this isn’t reason for shame.
I’m surprised at the responses - have any of you been to big city Pride Parades?
The reality of Pride Parades, in my experience, is much more like this Onion article.
I went to the Chicago Pride Parade a few weeks ago, and -
[QUOTE=The Onion]
…A group of obese women in leather biker outfits passing out clitoris-shaped lollipops to horrified onlookers; a man in military uniform leading a submissive masochist, clad in diapers and a baby bonnet, around on a dog leash; several Hispanic dancers in rainbow wigs and miniskirts performing “humping” motions on a mannequin dressed as the Pope; and a dozen gyrating drag queens in see-through dresses holding penis-shaped beer bottles that appeared to spurt ejaculation-like foam when shaken and poured onto passersby.
[/QUOTE]
…is downright tame compared to that parade and the surrounding activity.
True. But I would say that ALL parades are stupid, whether wholesome or not. If there’s something I want to see–or music I want to hear–I don’t want to have to compete with everyone else to squeeze into some place on a sidewalk just in order to see (or hear) it for 25 seconds as it goes by, craning my neck to get a glimpse from behind the 50 other people who are in front of me because they showed up at 5:00 in the morning to get a good place.
Especially when it comes to majorettes in leotards and beauty queens in bikinis.
Of course, that’s only in the rare cases of parades that actually have something interesting in the first place. I mean, really–a Flag Day parade??? Let’s face it: The vast majority of parades are really just pathetic spectacles at the public expense where every guy and his dog can pretend that the world for some reason wants to watch him walk buy.
This is something that needs to be addressed . . . especially because I used to feel the same way.
We’ve all heard stories about kids who are bullied and teased because they’re perceived as gay. Tragically, some of these kids are driven to end their own lives. But for the most part these kids go on to rise above the pain, learn to deal with the adversity, and grow up to be happy and productive members of society. There are also kids who are exposed to stifling religious teachings from an early age. Tragically, some of these kids, when trying to come to terms with their sexuality, are disowned and banished by their families and churches. Many of them become involved with drugs and prostitution. Yet there are also kids who luckily find a way of surviving and flourishing in spite of the odds. There are also people whose childhoods are relatively uneventful, and who go on to college and professional lives, who are living with a secret they cannot divulge, out of fear of losing family, friends, homes or jobs. So they go though life on the “down-low,” living in constant fear of being found out, and made to suffer the consequences. But there are also many who choose to reject that fear, and choose to deal with the consequences of being open and honest about who and what they are.
We are the survivors. We are the ones who have left the bullies and the bigots in our dust, and rejected the idea of “a love that dare not speak its name.” Many of us have overcome enormous odds, and rejected the idea that we should be “ashamed” of who we are. And we continue to fight, on a daily basis, both the childhood nightmares and today’s bigots, whether personal or political. And we continue to fight, not just for our own sake, but for today’s kids who don’t yet have a voice of their own. And we’re not content to merely survive, but to flourish.
Kids are not driven to suicide because of the color of their hair or eyes . . . but because they are perceived as being gay. People don’t lose their friends and families and jobs because they are left-handed . . . but because they come out as - or are discovered to be - gay. In a perfect world, my sexuality would be no more important than any other accidental characteristic. But we do not live in a perfect world, and my sexuality has been turned into a life-or-death issue. Our very survival - both as individuals and as a culture - depends on our constant fight for the rights and dignity that straight people take for granted. And we are gradually winning that fight. That’s something to be proud of.
So I continue to march in the Pride parade, as I’ve done for over 40 years . . . along with the leather daddies, the drag queens, the speedo bois and the “Dykes on Bykes” . . . and yes, the investment bankers and stay-at-home moms and dads too. Because we are ALL survivors . . . and flourishing in our own way. And nobody’s path is more valid than another. We are ALL leather daddies; we are ALL drag queens; we are ALL bankers. We take this one day to exhibit our Pride in who and what we have become, against the odds; and to celebrate that beautiful diversity among us. And it’s very telling that this is some people’s opportunity to criticize us for what we have become, for that very diversity.
So yes, Pride is exactly the right word, to symbolize both where we have come from and where we are, and where we are going. In the context of our battles . . . past, present and future . . . I can’t think of a better word.
Seems like the Pride parade in my town has gone from one extreme to the other in recent memory. First one I went to, there were men and women naked except for paint. Which, fun, but not really a wise strategy for reaching out to the mainstream. Last one I went to, more than half the floats were area churches and businesses putting their tolerance on display. Which, okay, progress, but what happened to all the gay people?
I must thank you, panache45, for your remarks. They put a whole 'nother light on my gay golfing friend’s POV.
May I pass them along to my gay golfing friend? Not that they are likely to change his mind–but they are interesting, and he might like to hear a clear and articulate explanation of “the other side,” as it were.
(Hey, I’m straight so it won’t actually lead to anything, but a guy can look, right? 
Not to mention I’m married as well, so double whammy! :smack:**)