Fans of the Onion know of this, one of their more memorable articles:
But I wonder… Is that kind of phenomenon really a problem? Certainly, it does exist (although many folks who say it’s a factor probably weren’t very solid on their beliefs towards gays to begin with), but I can see that one can have, at least, a visceral reaction to events that have what are basically public sex acts (if info given in threads such as this, which inspired this OP, are right).
So is this a big deal? Or does it fail to “convert” those whose minds, on some level, aren’t already made up?
While I don’t know if it actually “sets them back,” I’m reasonably certain that if these sorts of displays stopped being part of gay pride parades, they might be able to convince a few of the particularly hard-headed conservatives they aren’t a “menace.”
Being able to say “we don’t actually act like that” might earn them a lot of points.
IMHO, pride parades aren’t about convincing conservatives of anything. They are a celebration of being openly gay (/LBTQ). It’s hard to openly display your sexual orientation without, well, openly displaying your sexual orientation. If that reinforces stereotypes (perhaps in the same way that an Irish Pride parade might do so), that’s too bad.
For one thing, I’m not just talking about conservatives. If I were, then there wouldn’t have been much of a problem passing all those gay marriage ballot initiatives. Thus it’s rather unfortunate that I’m not.
Secondly, I wonder if you see a difference between “openly display[ing] your sexual orientation” and actual public sex acts (as I mention in the OP, and the joke article touches on).
There will be little reconciliation between homosexuals and Christian conservatives. Christians view the sex act to be at its core procreative. Homosexuality removes all purpose from sex in that regard. From a Christian perspective all homosexual sex is merely vapid and hedonistic. The best one can hope for is for Christians as a group to just become non-plussed by it. “Oh boy there go the gays acting really gay again.”
My personal feeling is, ‘Who cares?’, let them have their fun, if its a sin as far as I am concerned its a lesser one. I think stock brokers are far more corrosive to the moral order than homosexuals could ever hope to be. Now a homosexual stock broker, well that’s just the kind of villain I don’t wish to contemplate.
Ok, translate conservative to “those who are conservative when it comes to acceptance of different sexual orientations.”
Sure, obviously an expression of one’s sexual orientation need not involve sadomasochism (and it frequently does not–I went to the parade in Manhattan this year and it was somewhat tame). But that’s the spirit of the thing, in my estimation: on one day, everything is proudly, brazenly, defiantly out of the closet.
There is a difference between those two things, but there are no sex acts in pride parades. In DC the GLLU also rides in the parade and they wouldn’t much care for that sort of display.
What “actual public sex acts” were mentioned in the OP? Are you referring to the guys in the jockstraps? Is it the fact that they were dancing? Who are you, John Ashcroft?
I’ve given up making any comment on this subject and will simply refer you to the most eloquent statement on the subject I’ve read. Do read the whole thing, because it’s excellent. The following are neither the funniest, nor the most trencheant parts, but they form the most concise summary as relates to the current subject:
Thank you, matt_mcl, I couldn’t have said it more eloquently.
After having been in NYC’s Pride Parade for a few decades, I was used to a miles-long parade, lined with cheering spectators and picketing protesters. After relocating to Cleveland, I found myself in a parade only a few blocks long, with virtually no spectators. My mother asked me what was the point of a parade with nobody watching. I had to explain to her that the parade was for us, and its (and our) invisibility made it all the more important. She got it.
Anyone who knows gay history, knows that the roots of the gay rights movement are in the work of the people who couldn’t hide what they were, the butches and the queens and the transvestites. They’re the ones who really paid the price for the rights we all now enjoy. To reject those people, now that we have more rights and more freedom, would be an injustice.
Exactly. It was the drag queens and leather daddies and dykes on bikes who STARTED the whole goddamn thing. The Mattachine Society had been wearing suits and having informational teas with the liberal cognoscenti for decades without much effect at all when Stonewall happened. And Stonewall was the drag queens, not the Mattachines.
If heterosexual girls don’t all get tarred with the same brush as ‘Girls Gone Wild’, I fail to see why the whole gay community should be judged by ‘Gays Gone Wild’.
Me personally, I have no trouble with either one, provided such behavior is at Mardi Gras or Gay Pride, where people really should know what to expect and not bring kids.
I have only seen short clips of a gay pride parade in a short video showing how “evil” they are. That was years ago, and I have always assumed what I saw was the exception.
If I did attend a gay pride parade and saw penis-shaped floats and any “lewd” behavior, I’d shrug it off as a few people pushing the envelope for attention or a fraternity prank. Maybe I stereotype fraternities too much.
I am a little extra sympathetic to the gay community, so I may let them get away with more than things like that at any other parade. A penis-shaped float at a homecoming parade is just plain juvenile and completely irrelevant, for example.
matt_mcl’s link is a great explanation of what these sorts of displays mean to gays, but I think there’s a larger message that’s applicable outside of the gay community, which is, “You don’t have to be ashamed of what turns you on.” Way too many people are still all twisted up inside by their sexuality, and I’m not just talking about the closet cases, here. Somewhere out there, there’s a guy who’s totally straight, but has a “thing” for women’s shoes that he’s always been too afraid to cop to. And I like to think that, when he sees a dozen leather daddies cavorting on a giant paper mache penis, there’s a part of him that thinks, “If they can be turned on by that sort of stuff, and be so happy about it, and no one thinks it’s a big deal, maybe I can talk my wife into wearing some stilhettos in the bedroom some night.”
Everyone deserves a happy sex life. By pushing the boundaries of what’s considered really wierd, we make it easier for all the folks who are just a little wierd to get their rocks off with a clear conscience. It’s not up there with a bus boycott, or lying down in front of charging cavalry, but every little bit of liberation helps.
I touched on Gay Pride Parades in my blog last January. I had never been to a pride parade, and only seen them on television. I still contend that if the idea is to convince the homophobes that gay is normal, then the parades are the wrong way to go about it.
But I’ve been to a parade now. I went to one of the largest in the world in Berlin, this summer. And you know what? That is probably one of the best parties I have been to in my life, hands down. Never have I felt such stinging regret at being straight.
I honestly have trouble figuring out where straight people (and certain gay people) get the idea that this is the purpose of a pride parade (or pride festival, for that matter).
Pride is not about YOU (generic you, not specifically ForumBot). Pride is about US…it’s a party we throw for ourselves, to celebrate the fact that, despite centuries of oppression, hatred, persecution, victimization, discrimination, physical assault, danger, imprisonment, forced therapy and general misunderstanding, we are, in the words of the king of cerebral Broadway, still here. We’re not only still here, we’re still smiling, laughing, dancing, singing, cavorting, playing and loving.
Pride is not a Renaissance Faire. We are not holding pride festivals and parades in order to entertain or convince the straight people. It is not a tourist attraction. It is not a theme park. It is not a political manifesto. It is not an object lesson. It is not a plea for understanding and tolerance.
It’s a fucking huge, colorful, loud, joyful, sensual, tragicomedic party. For us. You can watch if you want. But it’s not for you. It’s for us.
Then, if you don’t mind me asking, why make it a parade? The form of the event implies spectators and lest I’m wrong parades have traditionally been as much for the watchers than the participants. Furthermore, I feel that many outsiders perceive it as a form of demonstration, which implies a political dimension.
It’s a parade because we can. And because the fact that we, who had to hide ourselves for so many generations, can parade in public on city streets being ourselves and not having to hide our feelings or our fun or our expression, is an indescribably good feeling.
I really don’t think it’s possible for most straight folks to even understand the kinds of emotions that run through a gay person’s head and heart when we see or participate in a pride parade or festival. Especially our FIRST pride parade or festival. Eventually it becomes somewhat old hat, but that first one…after a childhood and adolescence of being told that homosexuality is wrong and evil, after years of believing that you were seriously the only person within hundreds of miles who ever felt this attraction to your own gender, after the isolation and fear and shame…to see hundreds or thousands of people who are just like you being themselves in public…
Admittedly, the social situation is better now. But not everywhere, and not for everyone. And that “first festival” feeling is overwhelming.
It should also be noted that it’s not pride parades or pride festivals that change straight people’s minds about gay people. It’s knowing a gay person personally. It’s seeing in this person’s everyday life that they’re more or less just like straight people, on average. It’s having known a person for years or decades before finding out they’re gay.
