I’ve seen this happen many times and at least as far as my limited experience is concerned, it’s very true. However, at the same time, I’ve witnessed a few antagonistic reactions towards some of the excesses of the pride parades coming from people who changed their minds that way. Their experiences with individuals tells them that gays “are more or less just like straight people” but what they’re seeing is a rather freekish and extravagant display that reinforces their earlier stereotypes. (Which brings us back to the op.) “I don’t care what you do in your bedroom but please don’t bring it out in my street.” I’ve heard this a few times, though I’m personally not particularly bothered.
I understand this perspective. Based on this position of the parades being for internal consuption, I would like some help help understanding the justification for trying to force the St. Patricks Day Parades in Boston and New Rork to accept an openly gay entry.
Is it “Hey, we’re Irish too!”? If that’s the case, wear shamrocks in the gay parade. To force yourselves into an event based on heritage and nothing to do with sexual orientation, makes you appear hostile to their sensibilities.
Is that the goal?
My uncle was gay and expressed a sentiment similar to David mentioned in matt_mcl’s post. He thought that the extreme behavior in the parades of flamboyant drag queens and leather boys portrayed an image of hedonism and perversion that gave homosexuals a bad name. Having never known a gay person before (at least to the best of my knowledge) I accepted his view and opinion, thinking that what he thought was probably a common view.
Over the years I have met and befriended many homosexuals, both men and women, and they expressed similar views about the antics at the parades. They would participate in the pride parades but would always dress and behave in [del]norma[/del] [del]straight[/del] [del]conservative[/del] boring clothes. Again, I thought that their opinions were the common ones.
After reading this thread, I now understand the parade. The participants are showing off who they really are, leaping out of the closets, not to make homophobes change their minds or to shove it in their faces but to acknowledge the “dykes on bikes” and drag queens who fought and, in many cases, died in the fight to not be marginalized, institutionalized or demonized. It’s not an “F You” to the straights, it is an acknowledgement of who they are.
I will admit that I would never take my child to a Pride Parade, not because I’m afraid that someone would harm them or would try to earn a toaster oven. I try to limit my children’s exposure to sexually explicit material in general (I thought that Austin Powers in Gold Member was too risqué for my 13 year old even though it was rated PG-13). My 7 year old knows that Aunt Pam and Aunt Kate live together and love each other very much. She knows that our friends Brian and Ray love each other and are adopting a baby. I just don’t think it’s necessary for me to have to explain S&M and cross dressing to her, yet.
I’m sorry for my mistaken view. Consider my ignorance fought.
Well, if Irish Pride parades didn’t feature guys cavorting in green jockstraps, all of Ireland would be unified by now. 
Shamrocks at a pride parade?! We can’t have that! Gay pride parades are about sexual orientation! Why do people have to force their heritage onto that celebration?
Joking aside, the reason for wanting a gay pride float in the St. Patrick’s Day parade is contained in the way you phrased your question. There are a lot of gay Irish Americans, and they want to get more recognition and respect from within their own ethnic group. They aren’t “forcing” their way in, as you put it. They’re already in, and have as much right to be in the parade as any other descendent of Irish immigrants. Rather than an external organization attempt to alter someone else’s celebration, they’re an internal faction, trying to get a higher profile
Nah, it’s just an unnecessary poke in the eye for the establishment. Gay parades are about being gay, Irish parades are about being Irish. I’m half Irish and half Polish, I should get a float also to represent all the half Pole - half Irish in America. Please.
No, that’s not correct. I mean, sure, there are some people who want to see gays march in the parade for that reason (although I’m sure they’d disagree over how “necessary” it is), but that’s not the reason I, and a great many other gay people, support allowing gays to march in the parade.
Ah. Irish like these gentlemen, perhaps? Oh, wait, kilts and bagpipes are Scottish aren’t they? How about these folks, who are using the St. Patrick’s Day parade to raise awareness about wounded veterans? Undoubtably a noble cause, but not really an Irish cause. What are they doing in the parade? Here’s a good one. It’s an assload of New York firefighters. How is that Irish, exactly? And, of course, their buddies in the NYPD. What, pray tell, is the reasoning that makes it okay for an organization of Irish cops to march in the parade, that does not apply equally to an organization of Irish queers?
Well, I doubt they give floats out to individuals, but other than that, why not? Seems as firmly rooted in Irish culture as any other participants in the parade. But more tellingly, I don’t see the parade’s organizers threatening to cancel the entire parade because of the pernicious presence of parading Poles. Which is kind of the whole point of the controversy, from my side of the aisle.
I used to think they were negative things, but I’ve come to see them as the gay version of the Saturnalia. I think all groups, whether ethnic or genetic or self-determining- need one “repression & propriety free [within reason]” holiday.
Please, yourself.
There are Irish firefighters, Irish police officers, Irish doctors and lawyers and students and chefs and bartenders. There are Irish teens and seniors, democrats and republicans, Catholics and Jews and atheists. All of these people are allowed to march, and if they want they can even carry signs and banners. Even people who are half Polish.
But not Irish gays.
An Irish parade is about celebrating the part of your identity that’s Irish, not using you heritage to make a political point. Having Irish firefighters in the parade is hardly the same thing.
Well, I’m not gay, and I concede that they appear to be mighty fun and liberating for the participants. But I do think that they re-enforce some rather negative stereotypes about gays.
Both are true at the same time. Which is more important is I suppose a matter of personal preference. If I was gay, I don’t think I’d attend, but neither would I stop others from attending and having a party.
Well, if we’re accomplishing anything here, we’re giving voice and visibility to all those Irish guys who have a little Pole in 'em.
sorry.
So, you think the folks from Rolling Thunder should be barred from the parade? Because it seems to me that they, too, are making a political point.
How is it different?
Bolding mine.
Well there were sex acts at the Folsom Street Fair this year. I guess you could argue that since it wasn’t a “parade” it doesn’t count.
Link is NSFW.
You seriously believe an occupation is the same as sexual orientation.
Some here have chimed in that parades are about celebrating your identity and so Homosexual parades aren’t meant to change minds. Some here have said parades can have a politcal motive and do affect change. An Irish St. Patricks Day parade is about celebrating the Irish and as such is not the venue for either.
A number of years ago (if anyone can find an exact cite I would be grateful) there was the case of a TV news program that ran footage of drag queens to go with a story about gays. One of the people shown was a strapping, attractive black man in an elaborate sequin and feather costume parading down a street.
Now the fun part is that this man was straight and was strutting around in this costume NOT in a gay pride parade but as part of the world-famous Toronto Caribana parade. In addition, this guy was Jamaican. As you may know, Jamaica is one of the most viciously homophobic cultures in the western hemisphere. Gays and lesbians are regularly attacked and killed, and can even be sentenced to hard labour. Jamaican reggae singers have been banned from civilized countries for lyrics about shooting or setting fire to “batty boys” (homosexuals).
So this guy went apeshit! The television station were “racists” for implying that he was one of those horrible people.
A few years ago, a homophobic Canadian MP, an old gal named Elsie Wayne, made a speech in Parliament in which she asked why gay people have to be in people’s faces with drag and outlandish parades. Now mind you, this is a woman who was famous for wearing pink sweaters festooned with rhinestones and sequins in the House of Commons.
Interestingly enough, no conservative would dare say anything against black men dressed in outlandish, wild costumes at Caribbean celebrations. It is not all right to be racist but it is still all right to be homophobic because religion backs you.
No, that’s pretty obviously not what I’m saying. I’m asking why allowing firefighters to march as firefighters in a parade about Irish heritage is different from allowing gays to march as gays in a parade about Irish heritage. Neither firefighting nor homosexuality have anything to do with Irish heritage. Why is it acceptable for one group to march, and not acceptable for the other group to march?
Okay, the St. Patrick’s Day parade is about celebrating the Irish, and not about changing minds or celebrating anything that is not Irish. So, why are there Scottish pipers in the parade? Why are there cops and firemen? Why are there political activist groups like Rolling Thunder? Why are all of these groups acceptable for inclusion in the parade, but not gays?
Yep. I understand they are about celebrating…and I’m pretty big on gay rights for a straight woman - but…
The world is not divided into people who will support gay rights and people who hate fags - there are a lot of fence sitters, a lot of flip floppers and a lot of people who are apathetic. These are the people who will poll in support of gay marriage on Monday because “Adam and Steve down the street are such a nice couple” and the next Tuesday be “shocked that gay men perform lewd acts in bathrooms! I saw it on the news! What if my son would walk in” and convinced that gays are not worthy of the same rights everyone else gets. People aren’t logical, nor are they consistant. And if progress is to be made, more people need to flop the right direction more often than the wrong direction. You can’t control what Congresscritters do in bathrooms, but when the gay community comes out and celebrates its community with overt sexuality, irreligious behavior and frankly, an amazing amount of tackiness (and I’ve marched) - you can’t be surprised when that is what Joe Average American associates with being gay - and then makes the wrong flop.
At some point a Gay Pride parade that put sexuality front and foremost was essential for identity and self-acceptance. I’m not convinced it fills that purpose any longer.
The link in post 34 illustrates this quite clearly. That sort of behavior is illegal and ultimately counter-productive.
Actually, Folsom doesn’t count because it isn’t a Gay Pride celebration at all. It’s a leather event, and as such there are probably as many heterosexual couples involved as homosexual couples. But the fuss is made about the latter group.
In the interest of full disclosure, I’ve never been to Folsom, but I have many, many friends all along the gender and sexuality spectra who attend and who share their pictures/stories.