Gays and having children-Help!

Great Debates
1

Ok, I’m a gay male. I’ve been out for about 4 years. I’m 35 and financially stable. I adore children and have always felt sadness about the possibility of not having any.

I have a very close female friend who I used to date during the period in my life when I was more confused (dishonest?) about my sexuality. She is a terrific person and financially self-sufficient as well. She recently told me that she would like to have a child with me. She is recently divorced and hasn’t the stomach to get into another relationship yet really wants to experience motherhood. I am extremely flattered that she considers me her number one choice to be a dad.

However, as someone who was ridiculed quite a bit as a kid, I would never wish that upon my own child. I also wouldn’t plan on marrying this woman as that would seem too hypocritical. I think we would both make wonderful parents and I think it would be a healthy environment from the sense that the potential mother and me think the world of each other and respect each other a great deal. Considering the amount of children that are born into this world to parents that don’t really give a shit about each other, this would have to be better than that scenario.

So I guess my question, which seems like it would be debateable, is this: Do you think the world is becoming more acceptable of kids with a gay parent? Do you think this child would be scarred by this in anyway or not get a fair chance at life? Do you think it is selfish or morally wrong? What potential problems am I overlooking?

Feel free to respond to any of these questions! I respect the wisdom of these boards and hope that your responses will help me in what is a difficult choice.

2

Well-how close are you guys-I mean, are you likely to stay friends for a long time? In order for whatever child you decide to have?

(BTW, I hope this isn’t being too forward, but it would be done through artificial means, I assume…)

3

Why?

Anyway, yes, I think the world is becoming more accepting of gay parents. At school, I personally know of 2 people who have homosexual guardians. Neither get teased or picked on about it anymore than those of us with heterosexual parents do.

Me and my partner fully intend to have children some day. We think we’ll make great parents.

4

The only reason I asked is, that, some women think it’s okay to have a GAY guy as a fuck buddy…(or is that me speaking in ignorance?

If so, I’m sorry-and I will reject my question.

5

In fact, I thought about that-it’s a stupid question. Never mind, I put my foot in my mouth.

PLease, carry on-I appologize.

:frowning:

6

Read, if you haven’t already, Dan Savage’s book “The Kid.”

He points out some pitfalls of gay guys having kids with women (he and Terry adopt), and some of the issues.

I think kids are cruel. If you paint a big target (Dad is gay), they will find it. But a big target isn’t necessary - they find the little targets too.

Don’t worry about that. The real questions are things like do you want to have kids? Are you ready for the lifelong committment of children? How close are you and your friend? What sorts of custody arrangments would there be between the two of you? Are you ready to make the lifestyle choices kids entail (i.e. when its your weekend, you can’t go out, you have to stay with the kid or at least do “kid things”). Is she ready to make the lifestyle changes (if she isn’t, you may discover yourself full time single Daddy).

7

Wow. Hard questions.

I think the world has definitely become more tolerant of all kinds of parental situations, including gay parents. Of course, different areas of the U.S. have different standards. I think the kid would find more acceptance in, say, NYC than in a small bible-belt town. But then, you, as a gay guy, probably have chosen to live in an area where homosexuality is more tolerated.

IANAH, but I don’t think I would let my sexual preference affect my decision of whether to have kids or not.

Now, the other question of whether you should have children with a woman that you are not married to…that’s more difficult. I don’t necessarily think it’s a bad idea, but it will create a complicated situation. You have a lot to think about and a lot to discuss with your woman friend.

It seems from your OP that you want to be a parent rather than a sperm donor. Is that so? Here are some points to ponder with that in mind.

–Guinastasia asks a good question: Is she someone you want to be friends with forever? Because if you become co-parents, you will be bonded with her for life.

–How much of a parental role do you want? Do you want joint custody? Do you want a more avuncular role? Do you want to just be a “special friend?” This is something you would need to work out with the mother well in advance of the pregnancy. Perhaps you should even make a legal contract. It would suck if it turns out that you want to be daddy and she just wanted a sperm donor.

–What kind of support network will you have? Will your parents, siblings, and extended family welcome the child (and the child’s mother). Will your friends give you the support you need?

–Are you willing to make the sacrifices of time and money that this will take–including college education?

–Are you willing to accept that any future romantic relationship will be affected by this. Many people do not want to date a person with a child. Many gay men are very happy to be child-free.

–And most importantly–do you want to have a child right now? What is your gut telling you?

–On preview, I see Dangerosa’s excellent post. I’ll echo her final question: Are you ready to be a full-time daddy if need be?

8

I think we are likely to stay friends for a hell of a lot longer than 18 years. We already have for almost 10. And we intend on talking about it in great length before we make a decision. If we decide to, it would still be at least 2 years away.

As far as artificially or naturally, we would probably try the natural route as I was able to perform in that capacity in the past. Nope, not being too forward. None of you knows who the hell I am anyway, what do I care? :slight_smile:

9

Wow,

Dangerosa and Green Bean,

So many good and important questions. Many of them I am still trying to determine the answer to. One thing I can say is that yes, if I made this choice, I would be in it for the long haul, college and everything. And I have thought about the prospect of being a single parent if she changed her mind or worse, something happened to her. I would have to be able to make that commitment as well. I believe that I would be able to do that, if I had to.

The only reason I am considering this is because we ARE such good friends. We are alike in many ways and have always had respect for each other. I really couldn’t think of anyone I would rather have mother my child.

The relationship aspect does bring pause. I know that many would not be interested in a single dad. I’m just not sure that this should be a deciding factor. I mean, sure, it will diminish my choices but at the same time, I’m not sure that I want to lose this opportunity either. It’s all very very complicated :slight_smile:
I would like to print this thread once it has run it’s course and give it to her.

10

FWIW, I survived growing up with a gay parent, and it was honestly the last thing that ever came up when the “pick on Myrr21” time came around. Because nobody knew…because nobody asked. I wouldn’t have lied if they did, and my close friends knew, but my parents’ sex lives weren’t anybody’s business to begin with–regardless of which gender they were boinking.

Also, it was just easier to make fun of me for being tall and doofy-lookin :slight_smile:

11

I’ve been to presentations on legal rights for lesbian couples, and because of the potential custody issues, they recommend using an anonymous donor if possible. Of course, this isn’t an option in your case, but there are definitely issues to consider. Without the legal contract of marriage, what would your rights be concerning the child? Would you have any control as far as medical treatment, education, religious upbringing, etc.? What if she gets a better job in another state & decides to move?

You don’t say whether you’re currently in a relationship or not, but I assume you would have mentioned your SO if you were. She’s recently divorced, which could be a very emotionally vulnerable time for her. At some point, it’s very likely that one or both of you will become involved in other relationships. Whatever verbal agreements you make at this point can change drastically when that happens. If she were to marry again, would her husband want to adopt the child? What if you met someone and you both wanted to raise a child together?

I think that kids today are much more accepting of this than their parents might be. I’ve known kids of gay friends, and they seem to do just fine.

Strangely enough, a close friend of mine was raised in a very similar situation, except that her parents married each other. Her mother was bi & her father was gay. I don’t think it was a very happy childhood for her, but it might be more because her parents were very dysfunctional people. However, they both dated other people while she was growing up, and she and her sister ended up spending a lot of time alone. She lost her father to AIDS several years ago.

One thing I personally believe is that every kid deserves full-time parents and a “family,” whatever that consists of. At 35, you’ve still got plenty of time to think about it.

12

I think it is a great idea. Everyone here has made excellent point and brought up good questions. I am sure more will follow.
If you think it thru and are willing to commit to having a child then by all means do it.
Best wishes in what ever you choose to do.

13

musicguy, how close do the two of you live to each other? The only thing I would be really concerned about is that the effect on the child would be likely similar to one whose parents are divorced, in that there would be, I assume, custody times and such. I second Playdeaux feelings that the child deserves full-time parents and a family.

I might also question whether this request is a result of the recent divorce, rather than a true request. But the two of you are better judges of that than I am, just something to think about.

14

From my perspective, this is potentially the biggest problem. She won’t be recently divorced forever, and it’s more than likely that she will want another relationship sometime in the next 18 years or so. That new SO will be a wild card with effects that are impossible to foresee at this time. (What if she remarries and regrets having the child she has with you?)

Also, my guess is that your friend is having some emotional turmoil right now. Why does she want to experience motherhood? To have someone to love her unconditionally? To give her life purpose? Because she’s lonely? Because she thinks eensy weensy baby sockies are so cute? Because she really enjoys scraping melted crayons and chunks of barfed-out hot dogs off the back seat of her car?

Frankly, though it’s none of my business, I think this is a bad time for her to have a baby. Having a child should never be a lightly made decision and your circumstances will demand that you give the matter more thought than is usual. Take your time working out the details. The world would be a better place if ALL potential parents- gay, straight, or otherwise- gave a little thought to what they’re getting themselves (and more importantly, the child) into.

15

Another question: in what sort of community do you live? This is related to the support network, I guess. I have some friends who are a lesbian couple and have a baby together. They’ve gotten some flak, but the fact that they live in a very progressive, liberal, university town is a blessing. It means their daughter is that much less likely to be teased or considered weird when she goes to school. It also means they (and her) will have some peers with whom they can network and lend support as needed. I would think that the general acceptance level in your community might play a factor in your decision.

16

I kind of cut my reply short last night to chase monsters from under my three year olds bed. See, even the internet must take a back seat to kids.

Potential SOs for both yourself and your friend are a huge factor. Particullarly hers, since yours is less likely to have a huge pre-conceived notion of what makes a family.

Also, the whole “moving away” scenario. We can’t tell where life will take us.

Really, seriously, do not underestimate the lifestyle changes. Including how expensive the little darlin’s are. Check out child support laws in your state, IANAL, but I believe you will be legally liable for child support - which is a substantial amount coming out of the pockets of most non-custodial Dads I know. Not that you should be so crass as to refuse to support your kids, but if 1/3 of your income is going to your friend so she can pay daycare and buy shoes (or misspend it on herself), it might change your mind. Also, you might want to consider how fiscally responsible your friend is. You are being tied to your friend by far more than friendship, and the ties extend past sharing a child.

17

Playdeaux made an excellent point. If you were to conceive a child with this woman, custody would be a major issue. Even if there was a contract, chances are (at least in the near future) that if she were to challenge that contract after she remarried, she would win.

So legally, you should get someone to draft a bulletproof custody contract, or have it done with a stranger and a surrogate mother.

It may not be an ideal situation, but it would probably work out better in the long run, since there are less variables.

18

People have given outstanding things to think about in this thread already. I’d add two:
[li]Unbiasedly as possible, and ignoring your feelings of friendship, how capable is this person of being a single mother to the child? I don’t want to sound judgmental over her, but this is a case where you’re seriously considering being the agent whereby she becomes responsible for the care and nurture of another human being. That justifies your judging her abilities as caregiver before you act.[/li][li]Are you prepared, or is a third-party male friend, prepared to function as a father figure? There are studies which suggest that healthy developmental environments include at least one adult role model of the opposite sex from the parent/primary caregiver in cases where there is only one or those who function in that role are of the same sex. (Not specifically gay couples; consider the child brought up by a single mother and widowed grandmother or single/widowed aunt, or the single father who does not date, as other valid examples of same-sex rearing.)[/li]
Finally, the prevailing attitudes in your environs will play a significant role. Clearly, the kid is going to have a tougher time of it dealing with community attitudes towards his parents in, say, Mississippi than in San Francisco, Key West, or Rehoboth Beach.

19

The very fact that you ask this question is what would make you a great father and role model. Caring to the degree that you do would give the kid an advantage over many children. Your sexual orientation is a non-issue here. I say go for it, as long as you can promise the child a lifetime of love.

20

Man, I knew you guys would come through with some good questions and takes on this situation. I will be honest and say that to many of your questions, I do not yet have answers. Some that I can answer though are:

  1. I live in Southern California which seems pretty tolerant. She currently lives in Miami. Obviously, it would probably not be feasable to do this in a long distance way so that is a hurdle that will have to be overcome.

  2. I think she is very capable of commiting to this. In the conversations we have had, I got the impression that this is something that she has thought about for a long time.

  3. I am examining very closely my feelings about the awesome commitment and responsibility this is. There are so many factors though. It can be a little overwhelming. Ultimately, for me at least, it boils down to the quality of life that this kid would have.

  4. I would absolutely seek quality legal counsel on this. I would have to be sure that I was protected and that the child was protected.

  5. I have considered the idea of marriage. I’m not sure how I feel about that, not to mention how she would feel. On one hand, if we had worked as a couple, we would still be together. On the other hand, I do understand the importance of a child having a family and all that goes along with that. The idea of shuttling a child back and forth doesn’t seem like it would be fair to the child. This issue is one of my primary concerns.

Basically, we are not going to rush into this. We determined that we need at least a couple of years before we could put this together. There is lots and lots of talking to do. You all are helping so much with your questions. I really appreciate this.

So let me throw this out there. Do you think that marriage or living under the same roof would provide more stability even if the parents aren’t in love with each other? Wouldn’t the child at a certain age easily see through this? I know many children of divorced parents who were actually relieved that their parents weren’t living together. They knew both parents loved them and wanted their parents to find some happiness and somehow understood that their parents were happier apart.