You beat me to it, wring.
It could just as easily have been CNN, MSNBC, your local nightly news or USA Today - anywhere they use small words and simple ideas to get through to short-attention spanned and intellectually shallow among us.
I don’t know, you tell me.
Fascinating. Your “analysis” can be summed up as dismissing those opposing you as people living in fairy land, while essentially characterizing the Palestinians as a bunch of bloodthirsty savages (I know, you’ll try and pass it off by whining that you were just characterizing their leadership that way - but let’s be real. There’s not much difference between the two).
I, on the other hand, present a lengthy, supported, reasoned analysis about what’s actually going on - with no stereotyping to be found.
You’re a fucking idiot.
And your post indicated that…where, exactly? You stupid, stupid, ignorant hypocrite.
Israel would love peace. On their terms. Which is why this move is a brilliant maneuver. But the primary objective isn’t peace. If it was, they wouldn’t be expanding settlements in the West Bank and they wouldn’t have confiscated all of the equipment the PA needs to maintain order in Gaza against Hamas. But, I’m sure you’re aware of all that, right?
And the concessions they could make would be…? Stopping terrorism, I suppose. But of course, the PA has been completely stripped of equipment by Israel and has no ability to exert any authority, rendering them unable to stop terrorism.
Nice little Catch-22.
I absolutely agree with you here. The Palestinians have had one bad idea after another in trying to get their state. They probably would have had one by now if they hadn’t foolishly begun the terror campaign of actually killing people with bombings. Dumbasses.
Nice coding there, Neurotik. 
Gaza chant: “Oy vay, ve vanna stay!”
What rational purpose is served by the Israelies staying in the Middle East? Nobody wants them, they only stay alive by waging constant war with their neighbors, and – check me if I’m wrong – no Western country restricts Jewish immigration anymore. Wouldn’t this all be solved if the non-Arab population moved to Europe and the USA?
This is a whoosh, right?
Did you know that it’s possible to give your opinion without
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Insulting anyone who doesn’t agree with you, especially “them”
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Being a dick
?
-Joe
The state of Israel didn’t exist until the late 1940s. It has been in deep trouble since its foundation. I don’t understand why the people living there don’t take a hint and leave.
Probably because there are six million of them that have lived there their entire lives. How do you imagine this exodus taking place? Where are they gonna go?
You might just as easily say that all of us European-descended folk in the Americas should pack up and go “away.”
Somehow, folks are going to figure out how they can get along. Me, I have no useful suggestions and have a lot of sympathy for folks on both sides who have to find a solution as a matter of survival.
I don’t have any sympathy for the intractable and violent people on both sides.
And I think Weirddave is being an ass as ever when it comes to this subject. To be fair, though, he’s only exactly as asinine as anyone who picks a side in this argument and sticks with it.
That’s not naive optimisim, by the way – It’s a typo. “Folks are going to have to figure out…”
wanders off, whistling the theme from Annie
Larry Mudd: It is probably too late now for all of them to leave, but there is no other solution. The cycle of retribution will continue long after everyone who remembers the founding of Israel is gone, long after the religions have died off, long after there is no distinction between the two sides fighting.
The reason the Gaza pullout hasn’t attracted much debate here is because it’s pointless. It’s another meaningless act in a soap opera that will never end.
They fought for almost 2000 years to regain a homeland, and you don’t understand why they won’t leave? OK.
No, they gained a country in the late 1940s when Arabia and the Middle East were still partitioned by Europeans. They immediately had to fight unfriendly natives and instead of leaving for a friendlier shore they stayed to fight a war that will never end.
That I do not understand.
I’d like to think that this will make a difference, but I’m not keeping my hopes up. The conflict is characterized by blind hate and violence on both sides, and pulling out of one settlement seems unlikely to change that. There is violence and anti-semitism on the Palestinian side, and state-sponsored oppression and… I’m not sure what to call it but anti-Arab sentiment on the other.
That may seem strange, but I remember having many discussions with a Jewish friend of mine who is very pro-Israel. One of his primary arguments as to why no concessions could be make and no compromise reached with the Palestinians was essentially “if we give an inch they’ll take a mile.” Give them anything at all, and they’ll end up taking every thing. Such a position is not merely illogical, but outright racist and hateful. And yet it does not appear to be an uncommon view of the situation. As long we have such attitudes on both sides (anti-semitism is rampant in the Arab world), there can’t be a solution.
Just for the record, I find the commonly suggested “solution” among pro-Palestinian types to be oddly segregationist. A Palestinian state? What on earth would such a solution do to bring peace to the region? Are the Palestinians and Israelis going to just pack up and move behind their respective borders and never bother one another again? Given that the Palestinians seem uninterested in moving to Jordan, or Lebanon, or some other bordering Arab state (as my Jewish friend proposed they do), I don’t see how this is a solution. I can only see a political solution beginning when Palestinians and Israelis have equal citizenship and participation in government. So this would create a Jewish minority state? Boo-fucking-hoo. I don’t see how some deep psychological wish for a Jewish homeland justifies the oppression of the majority by the minority, especially in a self-styled “democracy” any more than said oppression justifies the hatred and violence of the Intifada. Any proper, secular, constitutional democratic state should be able to deal with having multiple faiths and ethnicities within the same borders.
Oh right. I forgot. This is the Middle East. Peace is hopeless. Give up. We’re not talking about political problems, are we? This is about faith, family, and most of all, about inherited hate. The eternal problem is where to start looking for a solution.
I am neither pro-Israel nor pro-Palestine. I’ve maintained for years now that the solution to this problem is NOT complicated. People just need to stop treating one another as targets and tools to be manipulated, and start treating them like the fellow human beings they are - with love and compassion and empathy for one another. The only problem with this simple solution is that the right thing is apparently just too hard to do. It’s easier to blow yourself up or bulldoze homes than it is to have some fucking empathy for one another? How sad.
How long have you been on this planet? When has this EVER been done on a national scale? The last time someone did that in that region he got nailed to a cross…
Undoubtedly. I make it a practice to respond to other people the way they respond to me. Neurotik called the tune with the tone of post #13 in response to me, if you don’t like the way the music sounds, I suggest you take it up with him, not me.
Wring,
I was going to direct you to threads like this piece of garbage from last year, but I think Derlith is doing an excellent job of supporting my contention in this thread.
Nope, I rarely watch any of those others either, although you seem to know quite a bit about them. I wonder what that says about your information sources?
Those first three words would make an excellent sig line. You should use them as such.
“Bloodthirsty savages”, my you do have a flair for the melodramatic, don’t you? Funny, when I look at the two sides, I see one side which is a representative Democracy that guarantees the rights and freedoms of all it’s citizens, even those who happen to be Arabs or Muslims, which has enshrined those rights in law and that has a court system which has repeatedly defended those rights, and another side that engages in the wanton murder of innocent civilians and has stated more than one that it’s goal is to eradicate Israel from the face of the earth. While both sides are far from perfect, one of them, judging from it’s history, is at least trying to find a solution to the problem.
Undoubtedly you are kind to puppies and help old ladies across the street as well. :rolleyes: I did acknowledged that you definitely had a point. I notice that you have refused to do the same, from your posts one would conclude that a desire for peace never crossed the minds of the Israelis.
Undoubtedly! I hesitate to contemplate what sub-strata of intelligence this relegates you to.
Oh, I dunno. Maybe where I said " While there may be strategic reasons for the Gaza withdrawal as well"? Seems someone needs a course in reading for comprehension.
Wow. What a brilliant statement. I am breathless in admiration at the vast scope of your knowledge. Tell me, oh eminent thinker, when in history has a country desired peace on the other guy’s terms? Seems to me this only happens when someone loses a war, and peace is forced upon them.
What does one have to do with the other? Unless you are claiming that the only way for there to be peace is for Israel to give in completely to the demands of the Palestinians. Sorry, it doesn’t work that way, unless, as I’ve noted, one side defeats the other, something the Palestinians haven’t come within miles of doing. It’s time for the Palestinians to give a little.
Except that equipment was being used against the Israelis more than against the terrorists.
Yea, that little thing. Israelis want to be able to go out for dinner and a movie without being blown to bits by suicide bombers. What an outrageous expectation!
Or, the Palestinian leadership could take a stand, officially recognizing the right of Israel to exist, pledging to find a way to live together in peace as neighbors and publicly taking a hard line stance against terrorism, and doing something about it. You think that they don’t know just who and where a large number of terrorists are? Even if they lack the ability to apprehend them at the moment, swearing out warrants for their arrests and demanding they be brought to trial would go a long way towards proving they are serious about eliminating terrorism. Moreso, it would put Israel on the defensive in this, forcing them to give the Palestinians the equipment and opportunity to do it. Assuming they went ahead and did it…well now, that would be a huge, giant step towards gaining their independence. If Israel is not under constant attack, they have very little reason to oppose a truly sovereign Palestinian state.
They’d been fighting ‘unfriendly natives’ since the 1840’s. You know, when the Russian nobility started murdering Jews and they decided to leave for more ‘friendly’ shores? You seem to believe that the area had a Jewish population approaching zero until that magical day in 1947 when Israel became its own nation and was immediately invaded by six of its neighbors, and (mind you) kicked the everliving shit out of every Arab army which crossed its borders. Never mind the fact that in 1882, 50% of Jerusalem was Jewish (first time in the modern era that it was so). Nevermind the fact that there were over 1 million Jews in various settlements (Jerusalem, Rosh Pina, Merchavia, Tel Adashim, Rechovot, Rishon le-tsion, Nes Tsionia, Gedera and Petach Tikva, to name a few. Each had between 1,000 and 5,000 enhabitants in 1897, with the exception of Jerusalem, which had over 50,000.)
They’d been fighting ‘unfriendly natives’ since the 1840’s. You know, when the Russian nobility started murdering Jews and they decided to leave for more ‘friendly’ shores? You seem to believe that the area had a Jewish population approaching zero until that magical day in 1947 when Israel became its own nation and was immediately invaded by six of its neighbors, and (mind you) kicked the everliving shit out of every Arab army which crossed its borders. Never mind the fact that in 1882, 50% of Jerusalem was Jewish (first time in the modern era that it was so). Nevermind the fact that there were over 1 million Jews in various settlements (Jerusalem, Rosh Pina, Merchavia, Tel Adashim, Rechovot, Rishon le-tsion, Nes Tsionia, Gedera and Petach Tikva, to name a few. Each had between 1,000 and 5,000 enhabitants in 1897, with the exception of Jerusalem, which had over 50,000.)
Sorry 'bout that. Hit the wrong keys. Now where was I? OH YEA!!!
Nevermind the fact that it’s been 58 years since the experation of the UN Mandate to the UK giving protectorate status of Palestine, and the advent of the modern Israeli state. Nevermind the fact that Israel has done battle with its neighbors five times, each time winning in a big way and then giving back its prizes (with the exception of Gaza.) Remember 1967, when they took the West Bank, Sinai, and Golan? They gave back the West Bank, then Sinai, and finally Golan. Hell, in '82 when they gave Sinai back to Egypt, they blew the shit out of everything there. This time, they’re leaving the infrastructure in place so the Palestinians have whole prebuilt fucking cities at their disposal.
Wrah! In any case, what I’m getting at is the Jews of Israel have just as much right as any other people to be there. It’s their homeland, and their country. 'Nuff said.
we may have the source of the problem. Neither that thread nor Derleaths posts come any where in the same vicinity to supporting your b/s