Let me change what I said: even if Flynt’s story is true, it may well not show hypocrisy on Bush’s part. It was unfair of me to suggest otherwise.
Daniel
Good thing you didn’t bring it up, which would be sleazy. Especially from an unreliable source like Flynt. Right?
Just like it would be sleazy to accuse a Presidential candidate based on nothing but accusations. Right?
So if someone posted something like:
that would be sleazy, right? Since there is no evidence except accusations about cocaine, so no decent person would repeat the rumor. Right?
I didn’t think so.
Regards,
Shodan
FTR, I already said in another thread that I’m assuming the Flynt story is bullshit until proven otherwise, however:
Do you have a cite that Flynt has been “unrelaiable” in the past? Do you have a cite that he’s ever published a false accusation? Drudge had a history of it, I don’t know that Flynt does (I’m not saying he doesn’t either, I’m saying I don’t know and am asking you the reason for your own characterizations. The fact that he’s a pornographer does not automatically make him a liar).
Also, I don’t see anything “sleazy” about paying for an abortion. So what if he did? Would that make him a bad person?
Bush fed the cocaine rumors himself by refusing to deny them. If Kerry had said “I have not fucked any interns for the last six months,” would you accept that as a denial of the Drudge allegations.
Way to totally miss the point, Shodan. How often have you cried that we liberals have a double-standard, that we howl at right-wing scandalmeisters while giving a free pass to left-wing scandalmeisters? I do believe there have been such accusations in this thread (though not by you) about Larry Flynt. I brought this up as evidence to the contrary, that some of us liberals WILL condemn scandalmeisters even when we agree with their choices of targets.
As for Bush’s drunk-driving and cocaine-use, those are hypocrisies that I think are worth airing out. I have no sympathy at all for drunk-drivers, and consider someone who would drive drunk morally unfit to be utility district secretary, let alone president – a willingness to drive drunk demonstrates a cavalier disregard for human life, in my book. I think the president has proven my point well.
The cocaine use remained a rumor, but his way of resolving it was beyond stupid, and I fail to see how any reasonable observor could conclude anything beyond that Bush did use cocaine but considers it a “youthful indiscretion.” Were he a major advocate for rehab and treatment, then it’d be unfair ot bring up his history. A s someone who’s built a reputation on being tough on crime, including on individual drug-users, his hypocrisy is very salient.
But these scandals are different from the Flynt scandalmongering: the latter doesn’t reflect on his political positions or relevant moral character, and therefore has no place in public discourse.
Daniel
I am sure you protested the Kerry rumor when announced right? Or later when it was proven to be completely bogus?
BTW: It was a bit more then a “rumor”- a damn book was written. Unlike the spurious Kerry rumor which couldn’t even get simple basic facts right.
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/1999/10/18/cocaine/
Oh and the DWI was no “rumor” either:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/bushdui1.html
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/bushdmv1.html
http://dir.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/11/03/lie/index.html
So did you accidently get anything right? Ironically, it was Fox News Network that broke the Bush DWI story open- so I thought you would have known. In any event, you may want to check your facts prior to trying to correct somebody.
No, it is just a rumor. No verification, no proof, nothing except that it was about a Republican, and therefore subject to the “proof by repetition” garbage you hypocrites decry so loudly when applied to Democrats.
No evidence at all. I guess Clinton was guilty of all those murders after all. After all, someone claimed it happened, and Clinton didn’t deny it hard enough. So he must be guilty.
Actually, he said “a couple of drunk driving arrests”. Which makes him a liar.
Only the part about hypocritical liberals who feel free to spread unsubstantiated lies about Bush, and expect to be taken seriously.
Sleaze from the Right. Horrible! Unforgiveable!
Sleaze from the Left. Shhhhhhh…
Regards,
Shodan
For GW Bush to have once abused alcohol and cocaine does not necessarily a hypocrite. People change, and if he managed to pull his life together with divine help or otherwise then more power to him. However, if he took draconian positions on drug law enforcement penalties, to which he was effectively never subject would be hypocritical in my book - he should try and ensure that everyone has the same chance he had.
However, if one is campaigning on one’s character and integrity then covering up or lying about past instances of wrong doing does indicate, at the very least, some degree of hypocrisy.
Change duly noted, but IMHO, should this story be true, it absolutely has a place in how we choose our leaders. I would pay good money to watch Bush squirm as he’s repeatedly hammered with the, yes I’m gonna drop the H-word here, hypocrisy of leading a party which wants to make abortion illegal when he himself has paid for a legal abortion, and explain why it is that women today shouldn’t have the same right to choose as the woman whose abortion he paid for did. The only reason this would be relevant is because of Bush’s and the GOP’s opposition to legal abortion. A pro-choice politician’s paying for a legal abortion isn’t a story. An anti-choice politician’s paying for one is.
So…another victim. Friend Shodan has fallen to the dread scourge of Cognitive Dissonance. How many more? How many more will it take before America awakens to the fearsome peril of CD?
What will become of us, if this threat is not countered, and soon. Will we become a nation dominated by a mendacious and irrational Administration, simpy because our citizenry is too crippled by CD to recognize it? Will our media become naught but spewing fountains of insipid mediocrity? Will a flaccid middle aged boob become the cynosure of our attention, while our nation crumbles around us?!
Make no mistake! If we don’t take direct and forceful action against Cognitive Dissonance, this is our fate! Another once proud intellect is reduced to burbling inanities, while we watch and do nothing! Note well: not one candidate…not even one!…has come forth with a plan to combat CD, the #1 theat to our Republic! How many Shodans? How many?
When your CD volunteer comes calling, remember the plight of our beloved Shodan and give, and give generously! Remember, you could be next! The mind you save may be your own!
Burn CD! The Time Is Now!
From the OP:
This statement betrays a stunning extent of ignorance as to the British tabloid press and The Sun in particular.
The rule to follow is; Never believe a word you read in The Sun.
I’m serious, this paper follows a standard policy of exaggeration, invention and blatant out and out lies. Anything, in fact, that will make a headline that sells. If they can legally get away with saying it, or suspect that no-one is going to have the guts/money to call them on it; they’ll print it. That is if they are printing ‘news’ at all. Their usual filler is celeb-bollocks trivial, nonsense and this story wouldn’t have got within a million miles of their pages if it hadn’t promised a little bit of sex, with a young, attractive female. I can guarantee not a word of the coming US elections has appeared in that paper before or since.
From then on they would be working to the principle of stirring and flinging as much dirt as possible to see what turned up. “The truth” is not a concern. So if The Sun’s quotes were ‘harshly critical’; you can read that as being, in the real world, as “a little bit concerned, if pushed”.
I’m not really annoyed about George W. Bush’s (alleged) past cocaine use as much as I’m annoyed by the weasley way he dodges the issue, to wit:
“Mr. Bush, did you ever use marijuana?”
“No, never!”
“Mr. Bush, did you ever do nitrous oxide?”
“No, never!”
“Mr. Bush, did you ever try extascy?”
“No, never!”
“Mr. Bush, did you ever use cocaine?”
“I don’t want to answer that, it’s not important!”
At least Clinton had the cojones to say he did try marijuana, even if he did wimp out with that “I didn’t inhale” bullstuff.
Oh, yeah? No “reputable outside sources”, eh? Well, what about this, Mr. Liberal Smarty Pants, Mr. Volvo driving, latte eating, sushi drinking Liberal?
How about the highly respected Dagens Nyheter! Here is its headline, unaltered and unexpurgated: “Kerry avvisar uppgifter om otrohet”!! It goes on further to note:
“Enligt de mycket oprecisa uppgifterna som publicerades i torsdags kväll har Kerrys älskarinna, en journalist som tidigare arbetat för nyhetsbyrån AP, lämnat USA på uppmaning av senatorn. Hon befinner sig för närvarande i Afrika.”
What do you got to say now, Nader-monger? Huh!? Go ahead, examine this cite carefully, rebut it if you can!
http://www.dn.se/DNet/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=148&a=233486&previousRenderType=6
(PS: you may be asked to “Logga In” I don’t think its required…)
Wow, your computer disables links- that is the only excuse I can think of. I provide Cites, you provide nothing to overcome getting all the facts wrong, and yet you prattle on about the very point you had just had publically disproved.
Small words for you then- a fricken book was written. I gave you a link- use it or STFU. Second you said his DWI was a mere rumor only the lowest, vilest creature would discuss (not that it was only one DWI, you scallywag). I provided many links to his DWI, and revealed it was Fox News Channel that largely exposed this issue to the public- those damn hippie lovin’ leftists.
Plugging your fingers in your ears and humming while saying “I can’t hear you!” hardly makes the painful truth that you were wrong go away.
:rolleyes:
Bravo, sir. That was, as they say in England, some seriously funny shit.
As in many other cases, Shodan’s post is her cite.
I’ve tried to be pretty civil to you lately, Shodan; I hope you’ll appreciate the sentiment when I say, Fuck you, asshole!
It turns out that he was only arrested once for drunk driving. That doesn’t make me a liar; it simply means that my memory was mistaken. You obnoxious shit, you think it’s okay to stretch a faulty memory into a lie? Fuck you.
Again, fuck you. I didn’t spread any unsubstantiated lie about Bush. You, on the other hand, are engaging in your time-honored tradition of twisting your opponent’s words beyond all recognition. For you to dare to label me a hypocrite is audacious beyond all measure.
Daniel
As for more rational, less hateful posters – in trying to verify my memory of Bush’s arrest record, I came across Michael Moore’s claim that Bush was arrested three times (once for disorderly conduct at a football game, once for theft at a hotel, and once for DUI). Can anyone come up with either a reliable cite for these other arrests or a reliable refutation of Moore’s claims?
Daniel
Yet another link to the Bush DUI issue- this time from CNN: