George Hotz - Wikipedia for those who want to know more about the backstory.
But what are your thoughts on this? Do you think it should be allowable to break security devices in hardware that you have purchased?
I don’t have a real stance on hacking the PS3, since I don’t have one, but I’ll tell you that my iPad 2, iPod Touch and iPhone are all jailbroken…as well as my wife’s Nook Color and an ‘old’ HP touchpad that I got at a firesale, so I’m basically for jailbreaking these sorts of things.
Ironically, though I have most of my Apple stuff jailbroken, I STILL buy a ton of apps and other content (audio books, music, videos, etc)…and, of course, I actually paid for all these devices as well.
-XT
Yes, you should be able to circumvent the devices in hardware you own – no, you should not expect to retain your warranty or your privilege to access any manufacturer provided service (i.e. the Playstation Network) if you’re caught.
I think hacking is fine, as long as you realize that you’re voiding the warranty. Don’t complain to the manufacturer if it breaks. For this reason, I’d only jailbreak something after the warranty expires (or if I was as close to 100% as I could be that jailbreaking wouldn’t result in a brick).
If you agreed not to hack it when you bought it, hacking it is wrong. If you didn’t, it’s fine.
According to Sony (and Apple and others) simply using the item constitutes an agreement to not hack it. I don’t really agree that something that passive constitutes an “agreement”, so I think it remains ethical to hack even if the EULA says you can’t.
Setting aside for a moment the free speech and ownership issues, the two* main reasons people want to crack their PS3s are:
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To be able to play pirated games.
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To ruin multiplayer for everyone else.
Number two vexes me. Back in late 2010, one of my favorite games was rendered completely unplayable by people with cracked systems. You would join a game, discover that one guy had superpowers, try to leave the game, and find you were unable to do so. The guy with superpowers would then laugh and call you a faggot nigger jew, and erase all of your levels before crashing your system.
I often hear, “don’t blame the guy who cracked the system; blame Sony for creating a system that could be cracked.” But uncrackable hardware is mathematically impossible. Uncrackable software perhaps – but if you’re going to put the physical hardware in the hands of the public it will always be cracked eventually, no matter how many security hurdles you create. And it is the nature of the console business that the hardware must be in the public’s hands.
So I have trouble seeing this as black-and-white. Yes, I’m sympathetic to the argument that you should be able to take what actions you want you want with your own property. But when the only purpose of those actions is to harm other people, well, then you’re running into 2nd Amendment arguments.
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- Yes, there are other reasons. But really, who cracks their system solely so that they can run DOS on it or some such nonsense?
So, not only did they get super powers but they also got full access to YOUR system, such that they could delete your data and crash your system?? :dubious: Assuming that’s the case, then yeah…I WOULD blame Sony for all of that, because, you know, it’s their fault for having such a piece of crap system and actually selling that to the public. That’s a serious hole in security there, if true.
-XT
What do you mean? I had just unlocked fall camouflage for the UMP45 and the guy somehow reset my weapon stats so that it said I had 0 kills with it. He didn’t wipe my system or get my credit card info or anything. I don’t think that’s a serious hole in security. It’s just a ruined game.
And again, blaming Sony for something that is inevitable when you put hardware in the hands of the public.
That’s my point exactly, Simplicio. Do you think scientists make up a significant portion of the people who use cracked systems? Spoiler: they do not.
Well, when you said he erased all your levels and crashed your system I assumed that’s what you meant. That IS a serious hole in security, to be honest, even if it’s just a game.
I’d say that whoever wrote the game shares some of the blame with Sony, but yeah…that IS their fault for having such a large hole in their system. Hopefully they patched it and it’s not an issue anymore?
-XT
How do you patch it once George Hotz has posted the root key to the system?
I’m very dubious that this is possible.
At the time of release, the PS3 was a decent price for the hardware for a Linux box with a Blue Ray player, solid graphics capabilities, and decent processor. Back then, it was even allowed by Sony.
When Sony issued an update that removed the ability to install Linux, many saw it as Sony baiting and switching. They were left with the choice of never updating and not being able to play any new games or use the Playstation Network or losing the ability to install another OS.
I’m okay with the X-Box being locked down. It always has been and no promises were made. I think it’s overzealous protectionism, but at least they’re not going back on promises and capabilities.
I’m in favor of letting people root or jailbreak their phone with the understanding that they will void any warranty of software issues. I think the manufacturer should still have to cover hardware issues that weren’t caused by unlocking the software (i.e. the shouldn’t have to cover a burnt out CPU if you overclocked it, but if the battery stops holding a charge, they should cover it).
Dunno, I don’t think that many people have hacked systems, so while I’m sure there aren’t a ton of PS3 clusters are out there, I wouldn’t know how to estimate what fraction of the total cracked systems they make.
There is an extension – playing hacked games for whatever reason (i.e. Guitar Hero mods). There’s actually a team right now doing a fan translation of the PS3 version of Tales of Vesperia. They’re making their own hacking software that they’re testing thoroughly to make sure that 1. It can circumvent security and run the English text patch but 2. Not be able to be used without a valid Japanese import disc.
Sure most probably do what you say, but I know there’s at least a decent number of people who like to mod games for non-nefarious purposes.
The guy was able to employ ‘superpowers’ inside the game because he had unlocked his hardware and asserted root level access to his OS?
Did he really call you those names? Are you both in high-school? You are almost certainly not. This guy sounds like he is.
I remember back when ping times in online games was paramount, and some of the more unethical players would employ hacks to subvert the servers so that they would almost always win.
You would ‘think’ you had a successful shot, and then be rewarded with “HEAD SHOT” where you were the recipient of said shot.
Is this what happened?
I assume you’re not dubious about whether someone could nonsensically combine three bigoted slurs in such a way, so you must be dubious about whether I truthfully related my experience.
Ready to have your dubiousness evaporate?[ol][]Go to Youtube.[]Search for “MW2 PS3 hacked” or “hacked PS3” or “MW2 PS3 hacked stats” or something similar (MW2 is the game I was referencing above) []Select any of the dozens and dozens of videos showing experiences similar to mine. []Come back here and report your findings.[/ol]
I’m with you on the warranty since you did mess with the hard and software in ways unplanned by the provider and as such could have shortened the device’s lifespan, but why should you be denied access to things like the PSN over jailbreaking your device ?
I mean, since they operate the thing and presumably run the typical software service legalese which boils down to “we are not liable if you purchased a Playstation box that only contained a rock painted with a smiley face, by clicking Yes you implicitly sell the
soul of your first born to the Dark Lord”, they’re probably legally entitled to do whatever the fuck they feel like ; but from a theoretical/ethical standpoint, I don’t really see where they’d have a leg to stand on, there.
Because if you allow people to install any arbitrary mod, you’re opening yourself up for hacking. The PSN operates under a general assumption that all players will be starting on the same grounds (+/- a fancy controller or something), if you violate that assumption things become more difficult to regulate. I know computers have dealt with this forever, but since modding your PS3 is much rarer than having a different computer, I think it’s fair to deny you access, at least to the multiplayer gaming portion, if you refuse to use their provided software.
ETA: I guess I don’t think it’s fair to ban people from, say, buying Beauty and the Beast or streaming Netflix or using the store on the device, but banning the multiplayer part of PSN is certainly fair.
No, the system is irredeemably compromised. There’s no way to resolve it without either having Sony’s servers simply invalidating all existing PS3s and starting fresh with new batches or physically altering all existing PS3s. Neither is practical.
As for multiplayer cheaters, blame the game companies mostly (which includes Sony, of course) and also the PlayStation Network. Security over a networked game shouldn’t rely on the hardware, unless you’re cutting corners.
Of course, it would be much easier if Sony didn’t use such buggy code. It didn’t take Anonymous long to hack PSN and apparently the exploit was so ridiculously easy it should shame any technology company.