Just because this is really sticking in my craw…
I read about it elsewhere and in many publications, I just don’t have all the cites. That’s why I tried to do a search for OSP, because I think I’ve made one or two posts where I collected links. These were just the ones I found.
And, more importantly, I do not make things up.
/nitpick.
I have to agree. You and I seldom see eye-to-eye, but you’re nothing if not honest. I can understand why you would bristle at such a suggestion. And I just wanted you to know that, even among your opposition, there are those who find such a charge to be ridiculous.
Fair enough, and I’m sorry I impugned your honesty.
However, in debate, a gratuitous assertion may be equally gratuitously denied. When you assert a claim without supporting citation to fact, your opponent may simply summarily deny it. It was that process, and the reasoning behind that rule, that I was trying to convey. I didn’t mean to literally suggest that you were being dishonest - just that if you make a self-serving claim with no cites, there is no reason for your audience to accept it.
I probably should have been clearer that I was illustrating that principle, and not intending to call you a liar. I apologize.
Well, there was Hersh’s report that JFK had established a half-million dollar trust fund for Marilyn Monroe’s mother - an assertion he later withdrew after it turned out to be slightly flawed, in the sense of being a complete fabrication. Link
And then there’s the Vanity Fair article on Hersh, saying he’s known to play “fast and loose” with the facts. Link Hardly a right-wing source, I might add.
I’m just sayin’.
No surprise there. The facts do conflict with your desired worldview.
The ocean is wet. Gonna demand a cite for that, too?
You’re way behind on the facts already, pal, per your own admission. The OSP was well-publicized at the time, in the mainstream media you ignored or, decemberlike, filtered out before it could impinge on your consciousness. It was discussed heavily on this board, too. It does you no good to pretend that the fault for your ignorance is someone else’s for not spoonfeeding you.
You know by now that Rumsfeld set up a parallel organization. If you want to continue to deny that its purpose was to feed the desired conclusions to the administration decisionmakers, it’s up to you to propose an alternative, plausible purpose for you . But you haven’t, and we all know you can’t. Now grow the fuck up and take a sincere interest in the world of fact, as already suggested.
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However, in debate, a gratuitous assertion may be equally gratuitously denied.
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You know now that the assertion was not gratuitous. Your continued objecting to it, however, given your admission that you now know the facts, is gratuitous.
Thank you Lib, means a lot to me.
Namaste.
Bricker: Apology accepted, think nothing of it. If I get a free minute or five in the next few days I’ll see if I can’t hunt down better cites. I know I used to have 'em…
Well, I’m not to sure about Samoa, but in Australia people can sure speak for themselves as they can elect whoever they want to. Now Iran and NK? Well, in NK only Kim Jung speaks for his people. And frankly, GW has as much right to speak for those people as that maniac does. I’ve never figured this out: Why does a dictator have more right to speak for ‘his’ people than someone half way around the world? People are people no matter what the lines on a map say and where they live.
Also, do you think telling someone to ‘shut the fuck up’ is really going to persuade them that they should rethink their actions? No, you end up being marginalized like Canada has done to itself. Any influence we have had with the US is long gone. I think a majority of Canadians hate the US. Most think Americans are stupid and want to steal Canada’s water or some other silly thing. Some think it is only a matter of time before the tanks cross the border. I can’t believe some of the shit I’ve heard. I’ve never met a people who think they are so superior and are, in fact, so pathetic because of it. Do we, as Canadians, think that this attitude doesn’t show when we deal with the US? Why would they bother even asking our opinion? This is not to say I agree, or disagree, with GW, but there is a difference between being a friend who disagrees and an insulting asshole who whines like a baby when they don’t get their own way.
Great posts Banquet Bear. As far as the partisan crap, is it possible to dislike the president for what he does, not because he’s a republican? I was a Bush supporter up until about 9/11 when he started going nuts. For me the guy gets a clean slate at the beginning, devoid of what party they belong to.
…interesting cites. Its a pity I have to be a Time suscriber to read the first one. As for the second, it would be nice if you actually linked to the Vanity Fair article you implied you were linking to, as opposed to a Salon article. However, I think that the authors last paragraph pretty well sums it up:
Absolutely devestating stuff Bricker.
My God Brutus, you come across as such an ill-mannered dick head.
You must be new here.
Just wanted to say: Banquet Bear, you rock, fellow Kiwi! Hear, hear!
And Calm Kiwi: yeah. Bush’s spoutings piss me off, too.
Geez I haven’t visited “the Pit” lately. I’m surprised “Dopers” didn’t jump on Brutus’ posting #11 :
*I rather doubt that GW personally gathered the flawed intelligence.
*
Darned right Brutus. GW was born with it.
Well maybe the SDMB members thought it was beneath them to take such a cheap shot at Dubya Bush - but I just couldn’t resist. 
Yeah it is the dark power! I give that to the moron…I mean man. He is kinda hypnotic. I can understand how so many voted for him.
It’s the smirk. Something about it is addictive. I keep thinking he is going to burst out in a fit of giggles and scream “GOT YA” any time soon.
Watching him with Chirac was like watching a time bomb about to go off. I applaud his restraint but shit his face must hurt after that much smirking.
Awww I love the “peace” and freedom. I just really don’t like the attitude and the smirk. All those dead people who got the “democratic” yearning made me think twice about the whole peace thing.
Meh, what do I know, not being a Republican, Democrat or American.
Am I supposed to love the ever growing list of countries George wants to freedomise? Or are they the ones I am suposed to think are evil?
My duty is to BITCH loudly. Of course it is entirely useless! I live in a country of 4 mill. We are fairly useless BUT we are democratic so we can rant till the cows come home. It serves no purpose other then to make me feel better.
Until he decides we are undemocratic…or evil…or something. Then I head for the hills.
Well said! Ok I wasn’t very calm but I didn’t see you banqueting (unless that was a feeding frenzy)
The stupid bitch kept us out of the coalition of the stupid “willing”…for that alone she has my vote this year.
But I would be tempted to give her my vote anyway, just because she raises your hackles so much.
Yeah, well how is that working for you so far? Changed any US foreign policy lately have you?.. Nope? Thought not.