My point is, or was, that both issues are basic freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution. Why is it invalid to show the limits one political party wants to put on your freedoms and not the limits another party wishes to impose? I made no comparision between the relative importance of those freedoms, you did. Nor do I think you can make that value judgement for anyone else; I, for instance, am an atheist. There is no religion that is important to me. Your right to follow your beliefs is important, but the belief itself is not. I think you, by claiming one freedom is more important than the other, are being artful.
And, if we assume you are correct for the moment and the freedom of religion is more important than the freedom to own firearms, why do you feel gun rights to be more “incendiary” than religious rights? Your assumptions seem contradictory to me.
I’ll will agree to your point number one, though. Although, I thought it was obvious, I probably should have made a distinction between my moderator and member comments.
Let’s see. I think there is this little thing in the oath that say he pledges to uphold the constution. One of the parts of the Constution says there is freedom of religion. So therefore, he’d have to abide by the constution and keep wicca on this list. If he tried to remove it, a lot of wiccan Military types are welcome to sue his butt off in Federal court, and I can bet the outcome wouldn’t be nice for GWB.
Now then, how about calming down? I thought we were supposed to educate and eliminate ignorance?
I think it’s because Bush is a presidential candidate, and with the election coming up, people are concerned with what he has to say. Just a wild guess.
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No, and here’s why:
Number of guns I currently own: 0
Number of guns Gore would allow me to have: who cares? see #1
UncleBeer, I’m conservative, I’m all for gun ownership, but
Al Gore is not going to confiscate your guns, mostly because Congress won’t allow it.
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Now, c’mon, 'fess up; aren’t you embarrassed to have Dubya running for President? The man is no conservative, he’s a nicely dressed moron, a coke addict and draft-dodger who has traded on his dad’s name all his life. I can’t vote for him because I refuse to vote for a man who’s dumber than I am.
Why did Republicans reject McCain at the primaries? Here’s a certified war hero, a maverick with strong opinions who knows foreign policy and economic policy who would have whipped Gore’s butt. But you people chose an empty suit as your champion. When you think of the proud tradition of American conservative thought, of Alexander Hamilton, Friedrich Hayek, Barry Goldwater, and many others, it saddens me that Dubya’s unworthy shoulders bear their mantle.
Defend the Second Amendment, defend the basic freedoms America stands for, but don’t defend that dim little man.
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But it ISN’T fine for those of us who do. And is CERTAINLY isn’t fine to take away my rights, or the rights of any other citizen of this country who chooses to LEGALLY own a firearm.
I’m beginning to look at it this way: the Democrats can’t stay out of my wallet and my gun cabinet, and the Republicans can’t keep their hands off my uterus or my bible. My cabin is sounding better and better all the time.
Tradesilicon - YES it has a pool.
Oh, Uncle Beer, for the record, it was obvious to me where your Moderator’s comments ended and your personal comments started.
Lastly, for Finagle, I don’t understand how we can put an order of importance on our basic rights. Frankly, what if I (and say half of the rest of the country) don’t care about religion? Then should we label gun rights as more important? It would seem to me that ALL rights are important and that in order to preserve them ALL, we can’t minimize the importance of any or we stand to lose them. All.
I didn’t mention gun control because Gore’s (and Dubba’s) views on this are pretty well known - this particular issue was new to me. As a member of a minority religion (Judaism, not Wicca, I’m just Wiccan-friendly), this incident just furthers my belief that that the religious right has given conservatives in general and Republicans in particular a bad name. The party’s continued kow-towing to the fundies is why I’m registered independant instead of GOP.
As far as the gun control issue goes, its a litmus test issue for me, so I will not be voting for Gore.
goboy - You’ve hit the nail on the head. I’m still considering writing in McCain.
Goddamn right I’m embarassed. And if I didn’t think Ally McGore needed to be defeated so badly, I’d be voting Libertarian this year, or even sitting this one out. Dubya’s a clown in the wrong kinda monkey suit. But (and at the risk of again being accused of partisianship) I gotta add, to say that he’s runnin’ on Daddy’s coattails is a bit duplicitous. Just who does everyone think Albert’s father is? He came to politics the same way Dubby did. I fail to see how this is an issue that only cuts one way.
Missy2U, I’ll get my trunks, meet you in the deep end!! (And, um, yes, I’ll keep my trunks on, ehem).
goboy - can’t say that I’m conservative like you, but I will be voting for Bush. I don’t think your charactirization is quite right, although better men could apply for the job, W is not by any means a dummy. Sure, he’s been helped out by Daddy, but what father would not help his son? (BTW, Al Gore is not stranger to family wealth and Daddy’s influence - I don’t see a lot of complaints from Dems and Liberals about that).
I’ll vote for Bush because I can at least hope for a smaller, less intrusive govm’t, if only the Reps could get out of the religion business. Why not have conservative economics, smaller govm’t and leave the social issues out of it?
BTW, Falcon and Blessedwolf, if you’re tempted to put a spell on any of these candidates, why not do it? Maybe that’s the only way we’ll get prgress…
Tradesilicon its because it might backfire… your not supposed to cast spell on people who don’t want it and don’t ask for it (at least thats what I gathered from my studies)
Hamish I have no clue who I want to vote for in the next election… its gonna be my first time voting too (the date is set for just over a week after my b-day) this is gonna be an interesting year…
Well, 2 things. Yes, MA does list party affiliation. However, I think that Nader and his “Massachussets Green Party” were listed first. I can’t confirm this, though, as I’m not about to open up my already sealed ballot, that I’m on my way to mail, btw.
Yeah, and maybe this would make sense if Uncle Beer had said that Al Gore was going to take away the right to bear arms. He didn’t. He said that Gore was going to further restrict the type of guns people can own. Big deal. I’m pretty sure the government already has the right to limit arms. I can’t own a grenade launcher. I can’t walk down the street wearing a rapier. And I can’t take my tank out for a spin on the freeway.
So I don’t think anyone implied that we were comparing two fundamental Constitutional rights and picking which one was the more important. There’s a difference between limiting freedom of religion to a few state-sanctioned religions and limiting gun ownership to certain models and types.
Finally, I think there's a probably a difference between Al Gore taking a position on gun control which, whether you agree with it or not, indicates that he's a man of principle, and Dubya saying that he thinks Wicca is synonymous with witchcraft (and probably satanism) which indicates that he's an idiot.
Care to put a number on the number of people killed with swords, crossbows, arrows, spears, knives, sticks and stones?
All in the name of religion?
Freedom of speech (the freedom to articulate ideas and philosophies) has probably led to more bloodshed than all the armed criminals who are just trying to make a living (granted, off of other people).
I know that I haven’t been involved in this thread but I would like to answer the question about why not casting a spell.
No can do, sorry.
It is against the Wiccan rule 'an it harm none. That and you arent supposed to do anything against someones free will.
