Trouble is, that’s a philosophical slippery slope to the end of all individual rights, i.e. “if you see the pregnancy, through, I’m sure you’ll change your mind / love the baby” etc. You could say that about any potentially formative experience:
“Do a hitch in the army, it’ll change your outlook.”
“Have you tried heterosexuality? I’m sure you’ll like it.”
“Go to church, you’ll learn to appreciate it.”
It might be tolerable (though perhaps mildly annoying) to make these suggestions to someone who is disinterested, but there are lots of people who’d like to see them made mandatory. Any adult should be able to tell them to fuck off.
For the record, the reason I prefer “thingy” over “fetus” is because we’re often talking about the thing before it becomes a fetus. “Fetus” is technically inaccurate because it potentially implies too much development!
And if the term is one allows anti-abortion-rights people to be okay with using it and stop muddying up the discussion trying to push their assumed conclusion that the thingy is a “child” from the get-go, then that’s good too.
Sure, but I’m very, very skeptical that most abortion-rights opponents/self-described “pro-lifers” would actually consider “thingy” an acceptably civil or neutral term for what they call an “unborn baby”. I think HurricaneDitka is way out in left field on that one.
That’s also the idea behind related laws requiring the woman to have and see an ultrasound first: “Once you see those cute little toes, you’ll understand that’s a real person and you’ll decide not to murder it”. As if a woman going in for an abortion hasn’t actually thought about it, because she couldn’t have actually thought about it if she reached a different decision.
Tough enough to be a parent when you are totally into it. No potential person should have to be forced into being raised by someone who doesn’t want to. If someone is not willing to take that on, they should not do it, period, full stop. Hard enough when you want to.
Personally, I have an atavistic response to the very word “abortion”. Don’t like it, don’t want to think about it. Which doesn’t mean shit to a tree, its her choice, not mine, I have absitively posolutely no standing to enforce an opinion. Mother Nature, bioengineer, did not ask my advice, if She had, it would be do something about that baby shit, maybe crank up on the cuteness thingy. Maybe tone down that Urge To Merge so that the brains don’t totally fly out the window.
Being a father is the single most worthy, productive, and satisfying experience of my life. And I wouldn’t do it again for all the Wowee in Maui.
I noticed that when he was asked what his preferred terminology was, he didn’t even bring up “thingy”. So much for his supposed acceptance of the term.
Think the problem is the presumed need for a rational discussion, like we are the County Board discussing taxes and zoning restrictions. “Pro-life” needs to pretend there is a reasoned basis for the argument to be decided, but confronted with reasoned argument, they retreat to platitudes and *non sequitur. * Half the time, they don’t even know they are doing it, they sincerely believe that “It is known!” is actually an argument, with firm foundations of reason and evidence.
At least “I believe it, and that settles it!” has the advantage of clarity and simplicity. Just about all its got.
I was actually using that quote to back the need for the right to abortion.
Anti-choice people (how’s that for an attempt at terminology?) often talk about ‘temporary inconvenience’ and adoption as if carrying to term were something like carrying a suitcase around for a while and then giving it to somebody else. Carrying to term is a permanent change in the mother’s life; and not only because it causes permanent changes, and possibly permanent damage, to the body outside the mind. It also causes permanent changes, and possibly permanent damage, within the mind. And the person who gives birth is bringing death into the world, not only life.
Once again, for clarity, I’m not insisting that “we” adopt any particular language. You asked me what my preferred terminology was and I answered your question.
If suggestions like the rather settled and commonly-accepted “pro-choice” and “pro-life” are unacceptable, as seems to be the general mood in the thread, then I suppose we’ll all just keep using whatever term we like, and we’ll each have to do some mental translation. For example, if I refer to the “pro-abortion movement”, you ought to be able to grasp that I’m referring to whatever-you-want-to-call-it, and when you refer to whatever-you-want-to-call-it, I’m reasonably confident I can figure out that you’re referring to the pro-abortion movement. And whenever I refer to an “unborn child” you can probably figure out that I’m referring to whatever-you-want-to-call-it, and when you refer to whatever-you-want-to-call-it, I’ll know that you’re referring to an unborn child.
So long as you’re cool with any arguments on the order of “and unborn child is a child and we don’t kill children” being received with the same sort of bafflement and incredulity as “this glob of cells is so cute!”
When I refer to a fertilized egg you will know that I am referring to a fertilized egg, when I refer to an embryo you will know that I am referring to an embryo, and when I refer to a fetus you will know that I am referring to a fetus.
They’re generally attempting to legally restrict or eliminate abortions. “anti-abortion movement” should do fine. We could call their opponents the “pro-abortion movement”.
And be inaccurate about it. The anti-abortion movement is against abortions, while the other side wishes to leave the choice up to the person with the fertilized egg.
We use the terms “pro-gun” and “anti-gun” in exactly the same way. The “anti-gun movement” is attempting to legally restrict or eliminate the right of people to own guns. The “pro-gun movement” is generally trying to minimize the government’s interference with / control over a citizen’s right to choose to own a firearm or not, as they see fit.
The correct term is, of course the pro-allowing-the-women-the-option-of-choosing-abortion-as-a-way-of-accomplishing-the-ends-they-seek-to-attain movement.
I formally state that I’m willing to engage in discussion about abortion with you, realizing that I will be generally trying to remember to call the thingy ‘thingy’. And making no promises about what I will call the members of either movement.