Germans are not patriotic?

The Economist had an interesting article on this very topic. It reports that German World Cup success has had a positive impact on the German economy, because everyone is feeling good about being German right now.

I don’t know what you mean by saying “being proud of my country is being proud of myself.” I don’t know what you mean, because what you said is on the face of it false–so clearly false I think you must mean something other than what you said.

I can be proud of myself without being proud of my country, and I can be proud of my country without being proud of myself. Since I can do the one without the other, and the other without the one, they clearly aren’t the same thing, and also clearly aren’t even logically directly related.

As to your statement that being proud of yourself is no crime, that also is problematic. If you are proud of yourself for committing heinous acts, then your pride is morally bad, if not a crime.

-FrL-

I’m interested to hear what you think is wrong with Happywaffle’s understanding of patriotism. What he said looked to me like an example of the most promisingly positive way to accurately understand a concept which can correctly be called a concept of “patriotism.” The only thing I wondered about what he said is, how should I distinguish when it is appropriate to feel “greatful” for the opportunities afforded me by my nation’s way of doing things, and when it is appropriate to feel merely “lucky” for those opportunities.

I’d say post away, and if someone thinks the thread should be moved, then the thread can be moved. GQ isn’t required to be free from all discussion and debate, though.

-FrL-

Oops, that should be “grateful” of course.

-Kris

Frylock writes:

> I’d say post away, and if someone thinks the thread should be moved, then the
> thread can be moved. GQ isn’t required to be free from all discussion and
> debate, though.

I’ll post when this thread get moved to Great Debates, and not a second sooner.

Y’all did a pretty admirable job of keeping what is probably a Great Debate as factual as possible.

I think moving to that forum will allow this to continue.

samclem GQ moderator

But starting a whole lot of them (Oh, well, declaring war only twice), qualifies for being the most patriotic nation on earth.
Nothing personal by the way, I’m just spewing a little hatred. Thanks and sorry.

Here’s a link in English to an article from Deutsche Welle, which is a government sponsored radio broadcast (and now website) which seeks to present to an international audience the news from a German perspective. Scroll down to find a few links to other related articles.

Ah, yes. There is a difference between someone being confident, having a healthy self esteem, and that someone being arrogant and self-centered. That confident, self-respecting person can at the same time be modest, self-effacing, humble, and it doesn’t make him a doormat.

To a great extent, Germans (and many other societies) have grown extremely wary of where nationalism can lead. They may indeed be proud of the cultural and social achievements of their societies, but they are well aware of where the sentiment “Deutschland, über alles” can lead if not kept in check. For what it’s worth, let us also remember that most Western Europeans are not particularly religious, either, specially compared to Americans. In that worldview your national or religious identity is just a natural part of your environment and heritage, not something that you have to make a Big Deal of.

And the OP question, as asked, is predicated upon the idea that “patriotic” is a positive thing – which we have seen, is not something axiomatic or indisputable.