I am finding it hard to be patriotic these days

[John_Stamos_Left_Ear]

It upset me when conservatives talked about how ‘No Kings’ protestors hated America. At the protest I attended there were American flags and a ton of veterans.

I felt it was more propaganda when some said that liberals hated this country. Wanting to make it better is the definition of patriotism if you ask me. It’s easy to recognize the many faults this country had in the past not to say I hated this place, but to look at the courage of people who did what they could to make things better.

But I am having a lot of trouble being patriotic. And it’s not just Trump, it’s his biggest cheerleaders.

I have trouble saying “I love this country” when there’s such a sizable minority of people in it who feel the way that they do about so many things but more importantly people. They are cheering the dehumanization of immigrants, minorities, trans people. They support this.

Even as Trump completely ignores those campaign pledges of “everything is going to get cheaper,” and everything gets more costly, there are not revolts. As long as they are sending in ICE into liberal cities they’re not sweating higher health insurance premiums, the price of milk, or anything else.

Patriotism is not just a love for the ideals of a country, that’s just a theoretical exercise anyway. What makes a country is the people in it. And right now there are way too many assholes in this country for me to feel very proud of being here.

For those who don’t think patriotism is a silly notion to begin with, and are actually in the USA, are you just as patriotic as you were a decade ago? If so, how do you do it? If not, do you think you can get it back?

[Czarcasm]

If you first stipulate that real patriots cannot outright lie, then it is easy to be a patriot.

[Der_Trihs]

@John_Stamos_Left_Ear

For those who don’t think patriotism is a silly notion to begin with, and are actually in the USA, are you just as patriotic as you were a decade ago?

I haven’t been very patriotic for a long time, but yes, I’m much less so now. Patriotism in my view is important to keeping a nation functioning and viable, but it has to be earned to be deserved. And America has demonstrated that it deserves contempt, not patriotism.

[Dinsdale]

Of the top of my head, I’m not able to come up with a single issue on which I feel patriotic.

The first election of Trump revealed what a large percentage of Americans supported a truly horrible person advancing horrible policies. Trump’s words and deeds have magnified that ugliness. Under Biden, there was a hope that enough Americans would repudiate Trumpian ugliness. They didn’t.

Superimposed upon American greed, laziness, excessive consumerism, fiscal irresponsibility, environmental neglect, international bullying, and refusal to think longterm about pretty much ANY issue, I’m not sure what there is to be patriotic about.

It has been challenging to be patriotic since 9/11. Under Obama, I was hoping that we were seeing short-term setbacks on an overall upward trajectory. But unless something incredible happens pretty soon, I fear I have to revise that perspective.

[thorny_locust]

I felt pretty patriotic at No Kings. Flags all over the place. Signs referencing the Constitution.

I feel that we’re fighting for the country that I was taught existed. Yes, I know it never did; and to the fullest theoretically possible extent never will. But it’s worth fighting for, all the same; because not doing so is guaranteed to take us further from it.

[Jasmine]

I am patriotic to the ideal that America is supposed to aspire to be as a nation, not to the malignant narcissist trying to become the first dictator of the United States.

[Jackmannii]

@thorny_locust

I felt pretty patriotic at No Kings. Flags all over the place. Signs referencing the Constitution.

That was a great thing about it. Take back the flag - and patriotism as well - from those who misuse them for evil ends.

Don’t make the mistake of declaring a lack of patriotism. That’s something MAGA can and does exploit to its advantage with the electorate.

[Sitnam]

A considerable number of people in our country are mad about their economic woes and no one has a fast solution. Patient determined sustained effort is necessary to change our current predicament and that does not seem in our national identity lately. Next day delivery, Fast food, Streaming is not only our modern world, but our contribution to it. We have been divided far worse before however. When we are united we do fantastic things and I do not believe we can unite for evil so it’s only a matter of time before the ghouls will go home.

So I am a pessimist and yet still a patient patriot. As Churchill said, ‘America will do the right thing after it has tried everything else’.

[Spice_Weasel]

@thorny_locust

I feel that we’re fighting for the country that I was taught existed. Yes, I know it never did; and to the fullest theoretically possible extent never will. But it’s worth fighting for, all the same; because not doing so is guaranteed to take us further from it.

@Jasmine

I am patriotic to the ideal that America is supposed to aspire to be as a nation, not to the malignant narcissist trying to become the first dictator of the United States.

This. I believe in the principles on which this country was founded. I believe in defending the constitution. I am not so naive to think we ever reached this ideal, but it’s something worth aspiring to. That’s what patriotism means to me. Not what is, but what could be. What should be.

[Kimstu]

I have been going to some talks and strategy sessions with speakers who are involved with things like helping immigrants know their rights and facilitating grassroots protection and advocacy initiatives for vulnerable communities. Those American patriots are fucking AMAZING and are doing a lot to keep my love of country active.

As @thorny_locust notes, sometimes patriotism is about calling out your country rather than just shouting out to it. Certainly I too have no hesitation in waving my American flag with the rest of the flag-wavers at No Kings protests, because what we’re proclaiming is that we’re Americans too, and what we want for our country is valid and important. Patriotism is too necessary to be abandoned to the anti-democracy MAGA assholes.

[Dr.Winston_OBoogie]

@Jackmannii

That was a great thing about it. Take back the flag - and patriotism as well - from those who misuse them for evil ends.

Don’t make the mistake of declaring a lack of patriotism. That’s something MAGA can and does exploit to its advantage with the electorate.

This has been in the Radical Right’s playbook since Rush Limbaugh - only people who agree with you are true patriots. Sometimes the middle needs to be reminded that isn’t true.

[thorny_locust]

@Dr.Winston_OBoogie

This has been in the Radical Right’s playbook since Rush Limbaugh - only people who agree with you are true patriots.

Since Vietnam. If not sooner.

[Cardigan]

I feel we’re at the part of the book where Captain Black is requiring everyone to take loyalty oaths to engage in various basic administrative tasks.

[Irishman]

What is patriotism? My Google AI answer

Patriotism is the love, support, and devotion to one’s country, which includes national pride and loyalty to its people and ideals. It goes beyond mere affection and often involves a willingness to take action for the nation’s well-being, such as participating in civic duties and making sacrifices for its good. This devotion can be expressed through actions like respecting national symbols, voting, or serving the community, and is a personal feeling rooted in one’s values and connection to the nation.

One kind of patriotism seems to be the ostentatious, facile type who parade around with flags and saying, “My country, right or wrong!” They act like the lowder and showier they are, the more real the patriotism.

I’m reminded of the character “the Peacemaker” from the second “Suicide Squad” movie. He loves his country so much he wants to protect its reputation, so he’s willing to kill, maim, and destroy to cover up evidence of the country’s malfeasance.

That’s a kind of patriotism, but it’s corrupt and malignant.

Another kind of patriotism is a pride in the ideals of the founding of the country and the promise of the Constitution. A pride in the accomplishments of the country, but also a pride in the efforts to spread health and welfare around the world. A hope for the as yet unrealized ideal of equality for all and an effort to reach justice.

That kind of patriotism demands that we stand to oppose the current regime and the rise in hatred and bigotry. We have to do things like the No Kings! rallies to be seen. And the displays of true patriotism were varied and prominent and creative.

I am not one for big ostentatious displays. My dad hangs a flag for patriotic holidays - I wouldn’t bother.

But I was at the last rally with a big sign and cheer for everyone in attendance. And the rally I saw could not in any way be considered “hate America”.

Hate Trump, hate the Administration, hate the fascism and the trampling of the Constitution and the rights it delineates. Hate the naked aggression and visciousness that is on the rise.

But I don’t consider those things America. They may be component parts of some Americans, and may be the actions of our current government leaders, but they don’t represent the ideals of this country to me.

[Velocity]

I think about this thread by Babale, which was very well-written:

He pointed out that, unfortunately, part of the political left basically “ceded” patriotism to the right and let the right improperly claim patriotism for itself. Although many liberals often care about America as much if not even more than conservatives, they sort of allowed the message to take root that only the right-wing’s patriotism “counts” as real patriotism and that liberals actually don’t like America.

And of course, some folks genuinely have indeed felt their patriotism wane and dampen. I feel much less patriotic than before. But still, image and PR matters.

Should the American Left reclaim Patriotism?

Can you define ‘nationalism’? What precisely are you worried that we would start doing if we got too patriotic? I agree that you don’t want to let any political idea - love or appreciation for your own country being one but that goes for anything we might believe in - override our reason. So that would be my reason for opposing hyper-patriotism - the risk that we would be blinded to real flaws that we’d otherwise be able to rationally examine. But I’m not sure if that’s what you mean by ‘nati…

[Spice_Weasel]

@Irishman

’m reminded of the character “the Peacemaker” from the second “Suicide Squad” movie. He loves his country so much he wants to protect its reputation, so he’s willing to kill, maim, and destroy to cover up evidence of the country’s malfeasance.

That’s a kind of patriotism, but it’s corrupt and malignant.

Just as an aside, the HBO Peacemaker series is phenomenal. His character really has to grapple with the consequences of his actions.

[Babale]

@Velocity

I think about this thread by Babale, which was very well-written:

He pointed out that, unfortunately, part of the political left basically “ceded” patriotism to the right and let the right improperly claim patriotism for itself. Although many liberals often care about America as much if not even more than conservatives, they sort of allowed the message to take root that only the right-wing’s patriotism “counts” as real patriotism and that liberals actually don’t like America.

And I think that No Kings does an excellent job of implementing some of the ideas I was getting at in that thread. No Kings is exactly what I was hoping for - Liberals reclaiming patriotism.

Each go around of the No Kings protest seems to be a little less focused on that message, though; I hope that trend doesn’t continue because they were doing some really great stuff.

[DPRK]

@Irishman

What is patriotism

According to Emma Goldman, patriotism is a menace to liberty. Has anything really changed since then?

You do not have to feel any compunction for not supporting The Regime (which, in a healthy society, may be changed and change), nor for not accepting assholery as normal.

[DavidNRockies]

Two quotes that I hope will add to the conversation:

I think in many ways religion and nationalism are the two scourges of humanity.

–Deepak Chopra

We love America just as much as they do. But in a different way. You see, they love America like a 4-year-old loves his mommy. Liberals love America like grown-ups. To a 4-year-old, everything Mommy does is wonderful and anyone who criticizes Mommy is bad. Grown-up love means actually understanding what you love, taking the good with the bad and helping your loved one grow.

― Al Franken

Maybe a third is something I’ve said directly to many people in my life (although I’m currently flanked, residentially, by two ‘flag-flyers’ to whom I have yet to say this):

Be neither proud nor ashamed of who or what you are. Be proud or ashamed of what you do.

Whenever I see “Native Coloradoan” bumper-stickers, I always think to myself “We’re all extremely proud of you. Good job!!”

Yes. That’s blatant sarcasm on my part.

It’s all just tribalism, and it’s all centuries/millenia outmoded at this point.

[Der_Trihs]

@DPRK

According to Emma Goldman, patriotism is a menace to liberty. Has anything really changed since then?

We’ve seen what happens to societies where people aren’t patriotic; they turn into corrupt failed states. And generally violent autocracies. If people don’t care about the nation, then they have no reason not to undercut it for personal profit, or to turn it into a tool to impose some other, less inclusive form of tribalism.