Germany Banning violent video games AND developers

Dude, screw that, I’m going TO Germany. I’ll be able to print money, one thing is necessary: back alley black market game trade. I can’t find any good stats now (anyone have a good game sales stats site? mine died) but last I checked Germany was something like the 4th or 5th largest consumer of video games in the world. Joking aside, this is a huge revenue hit for developers regardless of where they were stationed (if it goes through and that 64k signature petition doesn’t kill it).

One of the links above said the Bundestag got a 64,000 signature petition which forces them by law to review the bill before it goes through. So there’s still hope, and you make a good point to, they’d probably be losing tourism revenue at the very LEAST if they lost Lepzig.

I saw this mentioned over in the City of Heroes forums; the few Germans who have responded seem doubtful it will actually be passed. Hopefully they’re right, since apparently the City of Heroes European servers are in Germany, and there’s a dedicated German language server.

I think a couple of the well established “Uber Guilds” are based in Germany. Guilds like Conquest (far as I know, Conquest was not based in Germany, but are/were an example of the type of guild)used to be…the hardcore raiders out on the bleeding edge, first to beat new raid content,guilds that play multiple games. Guys that get the first closed beta invites, guys that have the developer’s ear. Serious gamers. Probably a lot of them have already signed the petition, but I’d expect more protests to come.

So what you’re saying is the Germans are trying to force game developers out of their country as refugees, where they may form “camps” in order to concentrate individuals who have particular qualities, such as 3D modeling and C++ programming skills.

Typical.

Within the European Economic Area it’s very easy to immigrate. Find a job, then go. Or, go, then find job.

And they are being scapegoated.

Can’t forget that part.

What did they blame in the 14th Century when 12 year olds went to war?

Jesus.

The video game midieveal war

Declan

And since they’re C++ programmers, will they have to wear a golden asterisk?

So we should stop students in high school from reading the Iliad?

I can tell you, germany feels like it’s descending in some 1984-esque state at the moment, if you are somewhat involved in IT / “the internet”.

There is planning for computer surveillance, where the police can basically install a trojan on your computer and spy on everything you are doing. It’s meant to be a measure against serious crimes and terrorism and such, but as everything in this direction it will probably be used as some standard measure against everybody who is remotely suspicios within the year.

The “Vorratsdatenspeicherung” (Telecommunications data retention) is a law that forces ISPs to save all connection data (but not the content) for 6 months.

There is a law against so called “hacker tools”, that makes every software that can be used for malicious intent illegal - and put every security firm in germany (and most of the admins) on a very thin line between doing work and being criminal.

Now there is just a new law called “Gesetz zur Erschwerung des Zugangs zu kinderpornographischen Inhalten in Kommunikationsnetzen” (yeah, I know, and it’s every bit as ridiculous as it sounds). It forces ISPs to block websites that have child ponography content on a DNS-level. Now thats a good intention of course, but this law an the technical implementation is pretty useless - there is nothing done against the site itself, just its access from germany is blocked. Assuming the potential consumer has no idea how to use a different DNS server. And befor the law was even passed, there were several politicians who wanted to use the same mechanism for anything from copyright issues over “hate speach” to violent computer games. In the end, it just puts a stop sign in front of the site. This has raised a lot of controversies of course, but as usual the “but who will think of the children” argument trumps everything. (I am all for doing something against child pornography, like every same human on earth, but this law is useless. It does not help any child, it does not stop any molester, but provides a very dangerous censoring infrastructure and gives people a false sense of accomplishment. The police legaly has to take action against such sites anyway as soon as they know they are there)

It feels like german politics has completely disconnected from any person younger then, say, 35. The people in power either don’t understang anything about the way people use computers, the internet and modern media at all, or they just don’t care. Some political active people like to call them “old grey men with ballpoint pens”, which about sums up their technical understanding of the modern world.

In this context, after every school shooting here in germany there is an outrcy that Something Needs To Be Done. Nobody really cares what, nobody has any idea why there was a shooting, but Something Needs To Be Done. So they use any scapegoat they can get. Heavy metal is too 80’s (heh), so they use “Killerspiele” (killer games) as the idiotic cause of all evil today. As the vast majority of germanys male teenager play this games (and I guess about everybody whos male and online tried them), it’s pretty easy to use them as a blame. Never mind that most of the psychological evidence points against the causal connection between the shooting and the game, but most voters (being too old) just doesn’t understand this hobby at all, so the see that Something Is Done. And all is well. They also used shootings to get political momentum for harsher gun laws, even though there really wasn’t need for that.

I’m rambling, sorry, but yeah, germany is pretty much batshit insane when it comes to things like this. Our Minister of the Interior and quite a few others are doing what they can to erode our freedom and our rights for whatever reason people are conveniently afraid of at the moment. And thats the way all of Europe seems to go right now.

How did Germany get so pussified? Is this some kind of guilt over Hitler or something? Hitler was a blip on the overall history of Germany - I can’t believe they would pussify and castrate themselves today just because many years ago they were briefly ruled by a very evil man.

You know who else banned freedom of expression and drove productive people into exile?

Stalin.

Well, and I emphasize I’m no German-specialist despite speaking the language and having visited and studied it, and even if I were, there’s nobody who goes so far wrong as country-specialists.

To this day, whole swaths of Germany has serious issues. The generation just after the war turned rebel (and got swept up in the 60’s thang) tryign to be ever-more counter-culture in order to assuage a vague, gnawing sense of national guilt. Not that many years ago, a prominent German-born, but IIRC American citizen Jewish writer (was it Elie Wiesel?) visited a high school in Germany. The kids put on a play, in which they held a sort of orgy of self-humiliation showing themselves as Nazis hurting and beating Jews, portraying themselves as villanous evil. It upset the writer so much he got up on stage and stopped it.

Germany, to this day, sort of wallows in its national guilt and can’t really get away frm it. This strongly affects its internal politics, and sometimes its external ones. Those children of the 60’s frequently grew up with a skewed perception of the world where every power were the new Nazis or just as bad. Thus, Russia was evil, except when America was more evil, except when Germans needed Americans for something, etc. German hatred of America runs deep, but is weird. The U.S., Russian, and Germany had a closeness stronger and stranger than, say, France in pre-WWI and the US and Germany in pre-WW2. After the war, many young Germans resented the US, partly because they perceived us as having been both too kind to their parents and being too powerful and omnipresent.

This today is partly a refelction of that. It was and still is illegal to show anything from the Nazi era except in very specific ways and contexts the government allows. You can’t even sell Wolfensteing (a game about killing Nazis) in Germany.

School-shootings in the U. S. of A. were sadly mocked in Germany, whose pundits assured everyone that this was a product of American decline, cultural breakdown, lust for violance and gun-mania. When it started happening there, the shock was even greater than in the wake of Columbine here.

Germany today is still having issues with it. They have to blame something, and the answer has always been more censorship, not showing people naughty things (although porn is pretty easy to get on the tv). So it’s the reflex which gets activated now. But it’s all the same card. The German political scene simply assuems that bad things shouldn’t be talked about openly in that way, but should be blamed, scorned, and wallowed in publicly.

I wouldn’t connect this to our past or WW2 - in my eyes the ban on violent computer games is more a modern thing, the typical modern german politician who does not actually care about the country but is more concerned about his place in the hierarchy and how he can stay there (or move up). Anything that will swing voters his way will be promised (and forgotten after the election).

Though we are equally insane about our past, yeah.

Not really, the swastika and certain flags and songs are illegal. There are countless examples of nazi-szenes in games in which the swastika was exchanged by a different cross - that is okay here. “Regular” stuff from the time is okay, and it’s possible to show everything nazi in documentaries and similar - there a some guidelines which alow that.

I dunno, fraggin some bitches in Team Fortress is a good stress reliever.

Yeah well how well is this bill actually doing? We have zany legislation being proposed all the time that never gets passed into law.

I thought Greece already outlaws violent video games.

There really ought to be a corollary to Godwin’s law for references to Lenin/Stalin/Communists/Communism.

Only Communists would make a corollary like that.