Okay, y’all may need to help me out here, in case I’m misunderstanding something, but here’s a few news items that interested me, being that I’m German- American.
Germany has more information on Moussaui (sp)( The so-called 20th hijacker), but they are unwilling to share it with the US, because we might give him the death penalty.
Hello? What am I missing here? Moussaui isn’t even a German citizen, and if I may say so, were the shoe on the other foot, and had Germany been attacked and had we had vital info, I bet they’d want it to prevent another attack, death penalty be damned.
Germany is and always will be home to me, but this is just plain wrong.
Herr Schröder is against the US launching a pre-emptive strike against Iraq. A spokesman says Herr Schröder wants “proof”. Okay-fine. So they and a bunch of our other buddies are against us waging war on Saddam. We won’t be able to count them as allies. I’m not surprised. But here’s the kicker: The spokesman said on Fox News earlier this week, that Schröder is prepared to declare war on America if we go ahead with this.
I wish I could refer you to a cite, but this is something I saw on tv and maybe the spokesman “mis-spoke”, but that is what I heard. Did y’all hear the same thing?
Okay so Germany wants to step away from the table on this Iraq thing, but then they also wanna declare war on us???
Help me out, here, y’all and tell me I didn’t hear what I heard.
I have Googled and cannot find a frame of reference to the question of Germany going to war over the Iraq attack, so I must conclude that I mis-heard, and I am relieved.
I am however, concerned that if The US ignores the UN mandates in this regard, that this may lead to strained relations with Germany.
However, didn’t the US already take pre-emptive action, by sending 100 fighters to Iraq Thursday? And that link is here:
As I understand it, many Western European nations feel that the death penalty is a horrible violation of basic human rights (not just the rights of that nation’s citizens), and will not turn over a suspect if he is likely to be executed. By extention, they wouldn’t turn over evidence that likely to result in an execution either. The ends can never justify the means.
I can’t say I blame them. If a serial killer who would be tortured to death in some unimaginable way if convicted in his home country escaped (but was captured in) the US, I would not support his extradition by US authorities.
I’ve been paying attention off-and-on to Germany’s reactions to whatever-the-hell-we’re-doing-lately and have never heard that they want to go to war with us.
Germany has been reluctant in the past decade to even send peacekeeping troops to Bosnia and Kosovo, thinking of the last time they had armies stationed in another European country. Whoever suggested that they might want to go to war with the US either hasn’t boned up on 20th century history or is just plain stupid.
It has nothing to do with Moussaoui being a german citizen or not. Death penalty is banned in Germany like in all other EU countries, so they won’t cooperate when the accused can be sentenced to death. In the same way the US wouldn’t cooperate with a country which wouldn’t offer a fair trial to the accused, or would use torture, etc…You must understand that from an EU point of view the US doesn’t respect human rights when it sentence someone to death. There are most certainly legal provision in Germany which forbid the police/justice to cooperate in such a case. You can’t ask another country to break its own laws just because it would be convenient for you…
Either you misunderstood, either the the Fox News speaker/translator was an idiot.
Schroder has declared that Germany won’t participate in a military operation against Irak in any event, IIRC. Nothing more.
As previous posters have said, all the EU countries have agreed not to use the death penalty, nor co-operate in helping any other country use it.
It’s part of a set of human rights legislation.
Incidentally, I remember the statesmanlike debate in the UK Parliament when we abolished Capital Punishment (which was before the overall EU agreement).
As for Germany declaring war on the US - was it (by any remote chance :rolleyes:) the same TV network that brought us news of such solidity as:
the Moon landing hoax
best UFO sightings
John Edward
etc? :rolleyes:
The only European ‘invasion’ of the US is to places like DisneyWorld, Las Vegas and the Grand Canyon!
Thanks for your replies. As I stated before, I am relieved that I misunderstood and/or that the news item was in error.
I do still think that we (The US) risk relations with Germany and other “friendlies” if we skirt the UN rules and regs.
Glee: I wish I had taped the news item in question (war). I consider myself a responsible adult, and am not given to histrionics and I do not watch the television channel you mentioned in your post. I asked the question in this forum in case someone else might have heard/seen the same thing I did. In other words, I wanted to be proved wrong.
I didn’t intend to get at you, only at the TV channel. (We have newspapers here that are pretty pathetic too.)
I think it is vital that the most powerful nation on Earth makes decisions based on good information, and so I deeply resent stupid half-truths being peddled as ‘facts’.
Quasi, if you look at that transcript that you posted you will find this:
Because of O’Reilly the Blowhard’s constant interruptions, perhaps you heard that as saying that Germany would go to war against the U.S. when he was saying Germany would go to war along side the U.S.
You have to realize that Germany is heading up to elections. The rhetoric is getting somewhat polarized as a result. Just like in the States there is little public support for direct intervention in Iraq in the form of an attack on the country. The further left the spectrometer hits the more true this is. Schroeder needs those leftist votes bad and he also needs to secure the centrist block. Stoiber (the conservative candidate) is playing an even stranger game, condemning Schroeder’s stance one day and being so tightlipped about Iraq the next that you’d think he had no opinion.
That being said I am irked by the idiotic way the media is handling all of this. Across the board in both Europe and America there seems to be a complete lack of analysis in the reporting, as if the politicians suddenly were being verbatim?¿?
As for the death penalty… well the essential has been said, I can only add that Schroeder and Justice Minister Herta Däubler-Gmelin, could even be criminally liable if they actively helped the US with case where the death penalty is being sought. It is simply against the German constitution.
Sparc, this must weigh heavily on their consciences. On the one hand they may have information that may prevent further loss of lives (remember, it wasn’t just Americans who were killed on 9/11), but because they think we’re going to put Mussaoui to death, they’re not releasing information that might save those lives. I wonder if we could make a deal, and keep the guy behind bars for life instead of killing him. It would certainly seem prudent in light of the fact that what the Germans know could help prevent another 9/11, but I don’t think the American public would go for it. What a dilemma!
Schröder has made statements in that direction while Däubler-Gmelin is taking the hard-line. I guess she got to be the bad cop while he plays the good cop, all with the hope that there will be some compromise. I just don’t quite see how that would happen though, as you said, public demand for his getting the death penalty is pretty strong.
I don’t give a fat damn whether they put Hitler’s Luftwaffe in the air or send a lone combat medic, or nothing. I disagree with their opposition.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but the United States government segment that deals with proseciting Massousi is in no way connected to the part that deals with germany. Hence, there can be no legitimate “deal” to let Massousi off the Death penalty in exchange for the evidence. If he is convicted, what is required to have him executed? Doesn’t the jury have to accept and promote this anyway, so that the givernment cannot simply say that Massousi CANNOT be executed (well, the judge can, but not the jury)?