Is the name “chincon” any relation to the crusty British drinking toast “chin chin”?
ben
I don’t know anything about the chin-chin toast.
But wasn’t quinine the effective ingredient in anti-cramp over the counter stuff like Q-Vel (leg cramp relief). The pharmicist said that Q-Vel was taken off the Over The Counter market. Now if it’s in Tonic water at a certain level and it used to be over the counter, what happened in the past couple of years to nix it as a cramp reliever.
Woulda made hash outa the song “Chin Chin Cherie” if it were replaced with “Gin Gin Cherie.”
[[posted 08-17-1999 05:13 PM
I don’t know anything about the chin-chin toast. But wasn’t quinine the effective ingredient in anti-cramp over the
counter stuff like Q-Vel (leg cramp relief). The pharmicist said that
Q-Vel was taken off the Over The Counter market. Now if it’s in Tonic
water at a certain level and it used to be over the counter, what
happened in the past couple of years to nix it as a cramp reliever.]]
If I’m not mistaken, quinine is still a drug of choice for leg cramps, and from what I’ve read no one is quite sure how it works. As for the “chin chin” toast (which they also use in Argentina, by the way), that’s an interesting theory. I doubt it, but I like it.
Here is the link to the column being discussed:
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/990813.html
Also, there is another thread on the board called “G&T” which is also about this column.
You’ve failed to answer the question! Why do they add quinine to tonic water? As you have noted, quinine is a bitter tasting compound. However in concentrations of about 20 parts per million its taste is most likely to be imperceptable. Quinine is added to tonic water because it is a fluorescent compound. Fluorescent compounds have the property of emitting light of a specific wavelength following excitation by light energy (i.e. sunlight). It is this property that causes (or supposedly causes) tonic water to sparkle (as in “Sparkling Water”).
[[Quinine is added to tonic water because it is a fluorescent compound. Fluorescent compounds have the property of emitting light of a specific wavelength following excitation by light energy (i.e. sunlight). It is this property that causes (or supposedly causes) tonic water to sparkle (as in “Sparkling Water”).]]
This is a joke, right? If not, you better notify Schwepps, because they don’t seem to know about this theory.
Anyone who has ever ordered a G&T in a strip club will tell you that the drink does, indeed, flouresce under UV.
John W. Kennedy
“Compact is becoming contract; man only earns and pays.”
– Charles Williams
Fluoresceing and sparkling are two different phenomena. They put the quinine in the tonic for a bitter taste - you’d be very surprised how sensitive the taste receptors are on your tongue.
As for fluorescence - of course it’s going to fluoresce. Quinine is a bicyclic “aromatic” molecule - put it under one of those “black lights” and voilà! instant UV spectroscopist! But they didn’t put it in there for special “sparkling” properties.
a URL for those who just must see the structure. The fluorescent part of the molecule is the fused benzene/pyridine rings at the “bottom” of the structure.
Lessee… Cecil says tonic was patent by Schweppes in 1858. So I suspect that the effect under blacklight had very little impact. Of course, that’s just suspicion on my part, I have no hard evidence to back up that gut feeling.
< Warning: possible sarcasm leak >
“Black lights” are not the only source of UV light. The sun is another source of UV light. Although I do not date back to the 1858, I believe the sun was producing UV radiation then as it does now (sarcasm alert). Fill one glass with tonic water and one with tap water. Take them outside and watch the tonic water glow. If the tap water glows, phone your municipality.
Quinine Hydrochloride’s bitterness threshold is 1:30,000 (according to the Merck Index). This corresponds to 33ppm. As I understand Quinine is added to about 20 to 100ppm in tonic water, I stand corrected that the bitterness of Quinine can be tasted. However since this is near the threshold of bitterness, I suspect the bitter taste is more than just Quinine. Schweppes tonic water contains “natural flavours”. It is more likely a bitter flavour such as grapefruit gives tonic water that delightful bite.
Regarding the flourescent properties of quinine …
This is true, as far as I know. Furthermore, from what I recall a professor in an undergrad genetics class in college telling me, quinine gets assimilated into ours cells, with the quinine molecule actually sitting in between the cell’s DNA. If I remember correctly, he described it as lodging between the stacks of coils that make up the double-helix structured DNA molecule. Anyway, the point is they (i.e. the Man) used to routinely issue large doses of quinine to soldiers in WWII as a standard malarial prophylaxis. At night, when the starshells went up, the quinine molecules sitting in the soldiers DNA would flouresce, and the soldiers would glow in the dark.
A little off-topic perhaps, and I cannot attest to the absolute veracity of this, but I figure that what good is a tenure otherwise if you cannot spin trues tales like this?
I love it when the Teeming Millions profess to know more about a product than the guys who make the stuff. You better call up Schweppes and tell 'em why they really put that quinine in there.
Jeet - you made sure one leg wasn’t longer than the other, because your professor was pulling it pretty hard…
I won’t get into the argument about quinine intercalation with DNA - but I have my doubts.
I’m debating on whether to write a missive about pi-pi* excitations, charge-transfer complexes and why the glowing soldier story could be complete poo. Any takers? (Sorry, I like to be polite before launching into long-winded geek-speak)
And tale-spinning is about the only way to get tenure these days. Have you ever read some of these grant applications/research proposals? I blush when I read what my research could do…(yeah, when Hell freezes over) 
I, myself, prefer the “glow in the dark” theory to the truth anyway, Cece.
OK … I’ll bite.
Is pi-pi* a body part?
Do I have one?
Seriously, I’d be quite interested in a solid refutation (or confirmation) of the “soldiers-dosed-on-quinine-glowing-under-star-shells” story.
I love it when the Teeming Millions profess to know more about a product than the guys who make the stuff. You better call up Schweppes and tell 'em why they really put that quinine in there.
REPLY:
As the Special Master of Knowledge, you should know that corporations are poor sources for the full truth. Are there not some corporations who say that tobacco is not addictive?
P.S. Love the Straight Dope books. Have all of them except the newest.
Jeet - pi-pi* refers to the bonding orbitals of the molecule that lead to fluorescence in the quinone molecule. This is basic quantum chemistry but too involved to detail here. Basically, UV light, which is not visible and has wavlenghts about 800-1000 nm, is absorbed by the molecule, sending it to an excited state. When the molecule relaxes it will emit energy in the lower, visible, wavelengths around 650-700 nm which is blue-violet. Notice how this is close to the UV range? There’s more to it but that’s the basics.
Cecil,
I am surprised that you neglected to mention the HUGE affect quinine has had on the modern world. A British scientist, William Henry Perkin, in 1856 was trying to synthesize quinine from coal tar because the molecular formula of quinine was known but the concept of molecular structure had not been perfected yet. If it had been he never would have tried his technique which yielded a blackish sludge instead of quinine. Trying to clean this goop out of his glassware with alcohol he noticed that the alcohol turned purple. “aha!” he thought “this color may make a nice stain”. And it did, Mauve was one of the first synthetic dyes, an anthraquinone (note the similar name folkS!). n.b. C.H.G. Williams independantly discovered cyanine.
Whilethe British capitalzied on this new discovery it was the Germans who really expanded upon it.
In 1858 Agust Kekule’ developed the fundamentals of molecular constitution. Then in 1883 A.Von Bayer (yes, THE Bayer of aspirin fame) synthesized indigo, a very valuable natural dye controlled by the British. This led to the discovery of other dyes. However, the true benefit came from the reaction byproducts and getting a better understanding of chemistry in general.
As the Germans produced more new chemicals they used them to produce even more new chemicals until they had a huge group of chemicals to play with. Many of these helped usher in a new era of growth & expansion for Germany - phosphated fertilizers, surfactants, etc. And many of these new chemicals gave Germany power -most notably mustard gas and phosgene. This spurred the Brits to develop their own chemical industry. Once war broke out the United States, a very reclusive country, was stuck not being able to get chemicals it had relied on from Germany. This problem was solved with usual American ingenuity - they confiscated the German factories on US soil and “federalized” them. Bayer lost his US aspirin patent and DuPont managed to make a killing by acquiring all the German’s chemical trade secrets for free! Thus was born the U.S. chemical industry!
So, from the little quinone synthesis has sprung much of modern chemistry!
BTW - this seems to further prove Cecil’s Eurasian dominance theory with regards to pluralism.
Hey Dyester…
uh huh…