Giuliani Blames US Troops For Missing Explosives

Brutus has won the battle, but lost the war. The OP is indeed technically false, but the ultimate truth that Brutus knows but cannot admit (which is why he focuses solely on the OP’s phrasing) is that Guiliani certainly DID provisionally blame the troops: and the provision is merely whether or not there is any blame to be had.

Now that it appears we have actual photos of the materials being there after the invasion, and actual reports from some of the post-war looters themselves, Guiliani’s provision now comes into play: the troops are big fuckups for not disobeying their orders to go to Baghdad and neglecting to help ensure George Bush’s re-election!

Spoken like someone who hasn’t actually read the whole of Guillianis comments.

Come on. The OP is already making stuff up; no need for you to jump in on the act!

Harry Truman put a sign on the president’s desk that said “The Buck Stops Here.” I wonder when it disappeared.

Before you shoot off your mouth again, you might want to make sure you know what the fuck you’re talking about. For a change. http://kstp.com/article/stories/S3723.html?cat=1. Still unconfirmed, but it doesn’t look good for the White House spinners.

Ya know, I’ve seen you slam me a number of times in this thread, when all I did was post a link to the video and call Giuliani a scumbag. Now, sure, the thread title includes my interpretation of his statement, but to repeatedly state that I’m blatantly lying, stupid, making stuff up, and “bullshit” is just ridiculous.

You disagree with my interpretation? Fine. But shut the fuck up with the personal attacks.

It’s all he’s got.

Hey, get used to it. You’ll know you’ve arrived when Brutus calls you a “retard.”

Scott McClellan fails to clear everything up:

Since this is the Pit, let me just say that the time-out on this board sucks ass.

It’s easy to have the knee-jerk reaction of vilifying Giuliani for “blaming the troops”.

But there’s nothing in the laws of physics that prevents troops from screwing up in the field.

Troops can and do make mistakes, as do presidents.

Left_Hand has most accurately pointed out Rudie’s error.

Bush was not, in fact, “cautious”. He did not, in fact, “do what a commander in chief should do”. Specifically, he did not listen to his most qualified advisor, one who had the most experience in peacekeeping (in Bosnia) – General Erik Shinseki.

In fact, after Shinseki gave Congress his honest estimate that 400k troops would be required to win the war and keep the peace in Iraq, Bush had Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz – civilians with no military experience – publicly discredit the general and repeat the administration’s figure of less than 100k troops.

We now know, after bitter experience, that Shinseki was of course right. We now have about double the Bush administration’s original figure of 75k in Iraq, and it’s still inadequate.

(Lest I be attacked, I do know that Kerry is lying when he claims that Bush had Shinseki fired. His retirement had already been planned and announced before all this. I would also say that Kerry was wrong in his stance on the first Iraq war. And it is also true that Bush has been blamed for things that are in no way his responsibility, e.g. Kerry claiming that the flu vaccine shortage is somehow Bush’s fault.)

Face it… we traded a lying, draft-ducking ex-dope-smoker for a lying, draft-ducking ex-alcoholic, and in the bargain we got the chicken hawks, the basest sort of men, who are unwilling to face combat themselves but are eager to send others to die.

It’s astounding that the Bush machine has the balls to say that, given the fact that it sought excuses to invade Iraq and paid a con man millions to tell them what they wanted to hear, rather than doing any objective analysis.

But what else should we expect from an administration that has accused John Kerry of being from an elite Ivy-league family, exaggerating his record during the Viet Nam war, not caring about urban blacks, and not being fiscally conservative?

Hey fuckwad, who’re you going to believe? BushCo or your lying eyes?

**Video: Explosive Evidence**

**

Best go drink some more Kool-Aid. That way, you’ll not just be an asshole, but a bloated one at that.

I’m stunned by the almost superhuman level of denial it must take to be able to convince yourself that saying the toops are “responsible” is not the same as “blaming” them. Not only that, but Brutus actually has the balls to attack other posters and call them liars if they do not see the same flying saucers that he sees.

He bangs his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the gosts.

I think it’s safe to say:
those who have the responsibility
receive the praise and the blame.

Giuliani says that the responsibility “would be for the troops that were there.”

Should it be that an error was indeed made
(and it seems likely that this is the case)
then the blame would go to those responsible,
those being, according to Giuliani,
the troops.

Giuliani is right: some the troops in Iraq should have said, “To hell with protecting the oil wells for Haliburton; let’s go over and guard, and possibly destroy, this ammunition before it gets looted.”

Hadn’t you heard?
The Bush administration outsourced blame back in 2001.

Gotta say “no way”. No way a politician publicly disses Our Heroes. Can’t be what he meant to say, it would amount to a political suicide note. Guilliani oozes, but he ain’t that stupid.

Probably meant to infer that there was some reason they didn’t guard the area, but no way he would blame them, even to save GeeDubya’s sorry cracker ass.

A mom doesn’t like it.

I wonder what, if any, impact this will have on Rudy '08.

I had the misfortune to hear Rudy yesterday morning when he dropped this dead rat in my Cheerios . I don’t care how much you parse the comment or try to imply context that just wasn’t there. There is no way to interpret the comment except that “ if it is anybody’s fault it is the soldiers’ fault.” This stuck out like a whore in church when juxtaposed with the President’s and the Vice-president’s repeated statements that by saying the President has screwed up the war Senator Kerry is some how denigrating the armed forces.

The point is not that the failure to guard the munitions dump is a major catastrophe from which there can be no recovery. The point is that here is a clear case of a completely foreseeable problem arising from the Presidential decision to run the invasion and the occupation on the cheap. The President has no business analyzing march tables and dictating marching orders and operation orders of the seven or five paragraph variety. The President’s responsibility is to see to it that the vital national interests are advanced and defended. It is his responsibility to make sure that our people go into combat in sufficient numbers with sufficient equipment and supplies of all classes to give a reasonable assurance that the mission with all its reasonably predictable complications will be accomplished as efferently as possible. When you send a division of Marines, a division of heavy infantry and a couple brigades of air mobile infantry howling across as country the size of California and do no anticipate that, first there are going to be a whole bunch of people who may resent the idea enough to start their own insurrection and second that there is probably stuff out there that is very dangerous and would be very handy to rebels/terrorists/ patriots then you have committed a serious error. Here is the concrete example of a failure to plan with a view to the foreseeable complications, as opposed to planning based on the happiest possible scenario.

The President and his merry band have screwed up the war. We have fought a war we didn’t need to fight premised on (at best) mistaken information if not deliberately manipulated information and self serving assumptions. We are faced with a conquered nation that is in worse shape in terms of personal security than it was before the invasion and hardly any better off in terms of public utilities. We are confronted with a spreading insurrection. We have raised an indigenous para-military force that is not reliable and appears to be infiltrated by the insurrectionists it is supposed to be suppressing. We have a quagmire on our hands. The situation was predictable and simple steps could have been taken to prevent it. Just as 9/11 could have been prevented by barring the cockpit doors this nightmare could have been prevented with the use of the 4th Infantry Division which was bobbing around in the Mediterranean after Turkey refused permission for it to come across their territory and a portion of the armored forces twiddling their fingers in Europe.

The failure to secure the munitions dump is only a symptom of the problem. The problem is the conduct international politics based on wishful thinking.

I certainly ain’t taking Brutus’ side on this, but in the interest of fighting ignorance let’s do recognize that Rumsfeld was in the U.S. Navy 1954-57, and in the Naval Reserve after that. He does have military experience.