Give me my car!!!

The BBQ Pit
41

I know that you are not actually in the military, but you might want to see if you can get this dealership on the credit union’s shit list. Explain your whole story to your loan officer. I’ve always found CU loan officers to be very willing to work with their customers, and if they get enough complaints about a particular dealership, they might not be willing to cut a check very quickly next time a customer is thinking about getting a car from this place.

Back when my husband was in the Air Force, there was a list of places that the service personnel were supposed to avoid. I don’t know if these lists still exist, or if you can complain about a business (not being in the service yourself) but the AF was usually pretty good about being an advocate for its people.

42

Not in California. See the DMV link poisted above.

43

or if it is easier, the link posted above.
:smack:

44

We were able to get them on USAA’s shit list, but not NFCU’s yet.

45

What the fuck?

I don’t know what these people want from me!

It should be simple: “Put in writing exactly what it will take for you to release the car to me.”

NOPE. Not gonna happen. “We’ve had the conversation enough times that you know what it will take.”

What will that be? Does the mean me giving you my SSN? Letting you run my credit?

He flat out won’t put it in writing. My fear is that I will let them run my credit and then they’ll change it to letting them write up a new financing agreement using them as a lender. Or them lying and saying they can’t finance me.*

Anyone know who the CEO of Scion is? Maybe I’ll be spending the afternoon at the courthouse tomorrow so I can find out who the registered owner of the dealership is and how I go about suing them.

*I say lying because I ran my credit last night and my score was 780.

46

I suggest that you find an attorney that specializes in consumer rights issues. They might be able to help you. They should be able to tell you what your rights are in this matter.

47

Ha! Poisted by your own hetard!

48

Figures. I had problems when I bought my Scion. The dealership didn’t like that I brought my own financing – the finance manager said I’d “really help him out” by taking dealer financing instead. He promised to get me the exact same terms. I refused to sign the financing agreement when I saw that the loan principal had increased.

Only when I got up to walk out did the finance manager agree to accept my E-loan check (I know, I know, I should have kept walking). However, the dealership refused to process the check. It took many days of angry phone calls (and intervention by E-loan) to get the whole mess straightened out.* So yeah, I love my car, but that whole experience soured me on Toyota dealerships.

Just out of curiousity, ethanwinfield, did your dealership give you the line that “we can’t cheat you – we’re traded on the stock exchange!” The finance manager at my dealership almost jumped through the phone to strangle me when I pointed out that Enron and Worldcom were also publicly traded companies.

You should consider filing a report with the local division of the Better Business Bureau, and possibly the state attorney’s office. I’m starting to wonder if other Scion customers have similar stories.

Good luck to you! E-mail is in my profile if you feel like chatting/venting.

*In my case, I took delivery of the car, then had to worry that I’d be stuck with dealer financing on less favorable terms. Different from ethanwinfield’s situation, but just as frustrating.

49

It isn’t just scion dealers. We had the same problem when we bought our VW. When we presented a check from our funding company, our dealership claimed that they never accepted those. They told us they could finance us with the same terms (no, they couldn’t). They tried to convince us that a lease would be a GREAT deal for us (Absolute bullshit. It’s a diesel and we plan to hang onto it for at least 10 to 15 years. Why should we rent the damn thing for the first two years, then have to pay a big lump sum, or refinance later?)

Their final offer was that they would accept the check as long as we agreed to a 10-day hold. I was sick as a dog and now I was really, really pissed, so we walked out. (I thought about telling them where to shove the loan paperwork, but it didn’t seem worth the effort.) We found out from our funding company that the dealership had definitely taken checks from them in the past. I’m assuming they were just being assholes because we were only paying a few hundred over invoice.

My husband did a bunch of footwork and talked to a fleet manager at a different dealership that actually had our car (the VW diesels were hard to find), and was willing to deal with the check. We literally walked in, signed the paperwork, had a soda while they detailed the car, then drove the car off. It took just under an hour. If you can find a way to cancel this transaction and give your money to another dealership, do it.

In the meantime, the Better Business Bureau is a good way to start. It’s quick and easy, and in my experience, you will definitely get a response.

50

I feel obligated to say, as a Scion owner, that the guys I dealt with at the dealership were awesome and I have nothing but nice things to say about them.

That’s a really shitty situation though, I agree that you should try very hard to get out of this.

51

Not a Lawyer, OP should consult one pronto
Q: What would be the legal ramifications in CA if he had the CU stop payment on the check? A stop payment charge and a bounced check fee might be a low price to pay for never having to deal with those … ‘gentlemen’ … ever again.*

*Not that I suggest you do this; I just posed the question as a ‘what if’ and only for entertainment value. No you may not jump off that bridge even if Billy does; I don’t care what his parents say.

52

You likely financed through them. Toyota dealers use the “4 square work sheet”., last time I checked.

*"The next step in my training involved the use of the “4-square work sheet.” Michael told me the 4-square was my friend, it was the salesman’s tool for getting “maximum gross profit.” As the name implies, the sheet is divided into four sections. When you have a prospect “in the box” (in the sales cubicle) you pull out a 4-square and go to work.

The information about the customer is written along the top together with the make, model and serial number of the car they want to buy. Then the salesman writes the sticker price of the car in large numbers in the upper right square on the worksheet. Michael stressed that the price of the car should be written in large clear numbers to give it a feeling of authority. He added that we should always write “+ fees” next to the price of the car (This includes license fees and sales tax.).
…The other boxes on the 4-square are for the price of the trade-in, the amount of the customer’s down payment, and the amount of the customer’s monthly payment. The final box on the 4-square was for the trade-in. This was where the most profit could be made. Buyers are so eager to get out of their old car and into a new one, they overlook the true value of the trade-in. The dealership is well aware of this weakness and exploits it.
…
The opening numbers were now in place on the 4-square. At a glance, Michael said, you could see the significant numbers of this deal — purchase price of the car, trade-in, down payment and the monthly payments. As you negotiated you could move from box to box, making progress as you went. It allowed you to sell a car in different ways. For example, if the customer was determined to get full value for his trade-in, you could take extra profit elsewhere — in the purchase price or maybe even in financing.

The first numbers that go on the 4-square come from the customer. The down payment and the monthly payment are only what they would like to pay. Now, it’s time to get the numbers that the dealership would like the customer to pay."*

In other words, they have three ways of getting maximum profit from you- not only the sales price, but *financing * and trade in. Thus, if you don’t finance through them, they lose 1/3 (or so, it all depends) of their $$$. Some dudes will say they have three ways of ripping you off. I am one of them.

There is actually a fourth way- dealer add ons like “undercoating” extended warrenties, and “special” overcoating. Those are all rip-offs, but most dudes know about them.

If you buy a car, don’t let them do the “4 square” on you. When they ask about financing or trade in, say you will discuss those later, you want to get the “right car at the right price” 1st. *Then, * do trade in, then financing. (The order depends on which you are more likely to accpet- do the one you are least likely to take their deal on last.)

Really, it’s not so bad to let them run your credit check and make you an offer of financing. If you already had a loan from your CU, the dealer might meet or beat the price (they are offering 0% financing out there, you know!). Yes, the dealership will make money off you loan- but so will the bank, of course! It is possible that given the exact same interest rate, that the dealer will thus give a little on the price- the bank can’t do that. Of course, barring special financing offers, the dealer usually won’t be able to beat your bank/CU, but if they quote you a rate, and you show them the banks rate, then you have given them a chance. They might even come back with a better counter offer.

If you were planning on paying “cash”, if the interest rate they offer you is lower than the best rate you can get on a CD- why not take it and leave your cash in a CD? (I am seriously considering this for my next car, if there are still 0% financing offfers around next year, that is!)

Sure, they are going to make $$ on your trade in- but if it’s just a few hundred $$, it’s likely worth it so as you can skip the hassle.

So, keep an open mind. But don’t let them cheat you.

*Stay out of Toyota dealers. * Toyotas are great cars, but if you must buy one new, do so through a Broker. Scion dealers were supposed to be different, but that appears to have changed.

53

We just bought a Toyota recently – not a Scion, a Corolla – but the dealership we went to was terrific. Of course, it was a Carmax dealership; they operate on flat price, no pressure, no hassle, and they had a better price by a couple K than we could have gotten anywhere else, so it was not a problem at all. In fact, the sales rep actually ran our financing from multiple sources straight from their office, including our (military) credit union, and we were able to choose them without any argument, fuss, or muss.

So not all Toyota dealerships suck.

54

Carmax is *sort * of a broker. They mainly do used cars. There are only two Carmax dealers that sell new Toyotas, one in Kenosha WI, the other in Wash DC.
There’s only one Carmax new car dealer in all of CA.

Note that the used prices for some Toyota Prius at Carmax are higher than the new list price!

55

Scion did the one-price thing where no matter where we went the price would be the same. The only difference was in the extended warranty–ranging from what we paid to double what we paid.

The best interest rate their credit company could offer was 7.3%. In order to beat the CU’s rate, they would have to come down thousands on the price.

There was no trade-in. I would have put money down, but didn’t need to with my CU.

56

Well, I don’t know if it’s good or bad news, but they still have not presented my check for payment.

I did get the confirmation email from the county that they accepted my small claims suit. I now have a court date of a Friday at 1:30. I tried to pick a day and time that would be the most inconvenient for a car dealership. Of course, that assumes the owner would (a) want to go to court and (b) want his sales guy, finance guy, and manager all there as witnesses.

57

I’m sorry you had to resort to litigation, but it’s good that you’re taking action.

Carbuyingtips.com has advice for buyers who feel they’ve been ripped off and can’t resolve their problems by working with the dealership:

[QUOTE]
Where To Go For Help[ul]
[li]Your state Attorney General web site, file a complaint online. Use our Directory Of All 50 Attorney General Web Sites [/li][li]TV news consumer reporters are effective at getting situations resolved. No car dealer wants to be the subject of a 6:00 news broadcast [/li][li]Complain to the Better Business Bureau, who can try to resolve issues and track and publish complaints so future customers can be forewarned.[/ul][/li][/QUOTE]

All three of these sound like good options to me. Good luck!

58

Psst, Ladybug See post #33

59

I have a small update and it isn’t good:

I checked my account online this morning. My loan is there as of Friday. Which means their bank never placed a hold on the check. They presented it for payment and my CU paid it on Thursday.

I went down there this afternoon and once again requested my vehicle. Nope. Not gonna happen. They played good cop/bad cop with about 6 different employees.

I was told, “If you let us run your credit, we will give the car to you today.” I asked for it in writing. If they had put it in writing, I would have let them run my credit. They still don’t have a back-up source of funding (nor do they need it), but I could return my rental car. Also, when I settle my lawsuit either with the owner or the judge, it isn’t going to look favorably on them.

I was told, “We will just cancel the deal.” I said, “No, we have a contract.” He said, “That’s your opinion.” He told me that since I never took possession of the car, they could cancel the deal at any time. I explained that they have refused to allow me to take possession of the car even though they have had their money since Thursday. He said it didn’t matter and he was going to cancel anyway. I said, “Put it in writing.” He told me he was going to call my CU first thing in the morning wire-transfer the funds back to them.

I called my CU and they faxed verification (my printout wasn’t good enough). Nope. Still not good enough. He said all sorts of shit but refused to put anything in writing. The guy actually accuses me of pulling a scam just trying to look for an area where they screw up so I can sue the deep-pockets owner. Seriously, if that’s what you think, maybe you should just deliver my car rather than provide me with ammunition for court.

So far I have spent $25.11 on interest and $28.80 for a car I don’t have. That doesn’t include the car I had to rent on Friday or all the phone calls I’ve made.

60

I don’t know whether this is practical, but have you considered showing up with a police officer? If they are refusing to deliver goods you have paid for, and refusing to refund the money, isn’t that theft?