Who outranks a car dealer?

Factual Questions
1

I bought a car tonight from my local Toyota dealer, a nice low mileage used Camry. I got the salesman to a price I could live with last Sunday, given that he would let me put the car on my credit card (about 9 grand), among other terms, and he agreed.

Tonight I went into the place to pick my car up. Because today was the saleman’s day off, I called his associate before coming over to confirm that all I needed to bring was my old plates and a credit card. He said he knew about the credit card deal from the other salesman, and to come on over and we’ll finalize the deal.

So we signed forms, made copies, attached plates to the car, etc., and then went to the business offices to run my credit card.

When we got there, the salesman was running the card, and some old guy passed him and asked what he was doing. The old guy (who turned out to be the owner of the dealership) said that he couldn’t accept a credit card–the credit card company charges too much money, and it was no deal on those terms. I interrupted, saying that the salesman had agreed to those terms. The owner told me that he wouldn’t approve it, and we were at a standstill.

I was just about to wallk (literally, since I had no car to leave in) when the salesman asked if I had enough in my checking account to write a check for the full amount and, after a lot more hassling with the owner, he agreed to take my personal check (there was another hassle about running my credit card as a backup in case my check bounced, but I got through that okay, I think).

Anyway my assessment of the situation is this: I think the original salesman was not trying to deceive me, and the associate seemed genuinely upset that the owner interfered with my deal. But the owner, in rejecting my argument that this was the price and the terms I came to with his salesman and was what I needed to finalize the deal, was creating an uncomfortable situation for me, in that I had come to the dealership in good faith, having been assured and reasssured that the deal I expected was what I was going to get, and he changed the terms of the deal. I asked him if he’d be willing to lower the price in exchange for my waiving the credit card part of the deal, and he refused.

So my choices were walk, or write a personal check. (The reason I wanted the credit card part of the deal was a little bit petty: I wanted to earn the airlline miles I would get by charging 9000 dollars, and I wanted the 30-day loan until my credit card bill arrived. I’m not sure what those two commodities are worth, but if he would have taken 200 dollars off the price I would have felt just fine.) Mostly, I suspect that I was just being stubborn because a deal is a deal, and I wanted the deal to be honored.

Now I’m feeling that it wasn’t. Since the old guy owns the dealership, he doesn’t have a boss to whom I can voice my complaint. Or does he? Do I just write a letter to the national Toyota company telling them of my dissatisfaction with this dealership’s practices? Has anyone ever tried complaining the national company? Has it been worth your effort to do so?

2

Note to MODs: if you want to move this (to MPSIMS?) it’s fine with me. I put it here because I’m mostly interested in knowing the answer to my OP, and who that person might be, but I did spend most of the post formulating my complicated story, so whatever you want to do with this…

3

No matter how “legit” your original salesman seemed, he probably knew good and well they’d be asking you to write a check later.

You have several days after the transaction to change your mind.
You should get the deal you originally asked for.
Not the usual bait and switch.

As to the OP, I’d say dirt outranks car salesmen.

4

A small claims court judge outranks the car salesman.

Someone with more mathematical abilities than I can figure out the time value of money for 1 month and the value of 9000 airline points. That is how much you sue for.

5

I think the first salesman made an oral contract with you while acting as an agent of the owner. You acted in good faith, and I wish you would have walked. The owners beef was with his employee, not you, the customer.
Enjoy your new car. Camrys have a good reputation.
Peace,
mangeorge

6

The OP’s profile doesn’t say what state (s)he’s in, so this may or may not be true in this case.

California, for example, [a href=“http://www.csaa.com/global/articledetail/0,8055,1002010200%7C1334,00.html”]has no such “cooling off” period.[/a]

7

Fixed coding.

8

I think your reasons for wanting to usea credit card are fine, thet are among the few attractions. From the vendors point of view the charges can be up to 5.5% (here at least) and that could be a fair slab of the sale profit. The salesman may just be a clod who isn’t aware of this.

As to outranking, some years ago a survey of several hundred different occupations ranked doctors and nurses 1 and2 for integrity. The last 3 positions went to used car dealers, politicians and drug dealers. I just wondered who the drug dealers pissed off.

9

Hey, based on the OP, the “old guy” may just be some senior citizen employed with the company. Age doesn’t exactly mean he’s the owner of the place. . . Hell, he could just be a really old guy that’s got some experience selling cars.

I would seriously look at anything before you sign it. And for all intents and purposes. don’t sign a credit card slip before you get a contract in writing.

Tripler
I’ve never personnaly been bit in the ass, but I have plenty of friends that have. . .

10

You missed this, Tripler:

11

You are the boss, until you hand over the money.

You should have walked. If you want a Camry, it’s the most popular family sedan in the US - there are plenty of them, and plenty of dealers to buy them from. You could have just told them “A deal’s a deal - I’m holding up my end, if you don’t want to hold up your end, I’ll buy from somebody else”. Then walk out. Either they would have chased you down and done the deal your way, or you’d end up at another dealer. Simple.

Also, you can complain to your credit card issuer - merchants who accept credit cards must sign an agreement that they will accept credit cards for all transactions - no minimums or maximums. This means the “minimum $20” signs in shops are bogus, too. Here’s a few references (search for minimum, and yes I know the Mastercard site is for Hong Kong):

http://usa.visa.com/personal/about_visa/contact_us.html?it=il_/personal/site_map/index.html?it=search
http://global.mastercard.com/hk/consumer/cust_serv.html

12

I’m with the “shoulda walked” camp. It is the end of the year and car dealerships are beginning to get antsy about year-end quotas. You could have found a place that would have gladly taken your credit card :wink:

Camrys are good cars, tho.

13

I live in New York State, and we do have a lemon law. I could go back today, and offer to undo the deal–the only question is whether this hassle is worth it to me. I’m still contemplating just sucking down the irritation in my craw, and living with this obnoxious behavior.

What I’m wondering though is which route to pursue:

  1. live with it
  2. return the car under the lemon law and renegotiate price with the saleman with the new understanding that I’ll have to pay by cashier’s check.
  3. accept the deal but ask the saleman what he can offer me so that I DON’T do choice number 2
  4. complain to my VISA-card issuer that this dealership refused to accept my VISA card for this transaction despite obviously having the ability to do so
  5. complain to the corporate entity (Toyota’s corporate headquarters) that this franchise is acting in a way that uses tactics (“bait and switch”) that doesn’t reflect well on the brand name, and ask them what they’re willing to do to make me a satisfied customer.

I’m most inclined towards choices 4 or 5, because that gives me the least face-time with these salesmen and sharpies, though I recognize that they’re also the choices that involve the most of a different run-around (i.e. writing letters to various people who aren’t the person I want to reach). [Thanks for the VISA link, 5cents; Anyone have a link to Toyota?].

But I’ll do whatever seems the most likely tactic to get what I want in the end (i.e., this car plus a little money back in my pocket).

14

I just bought a car in California, and I can tell you that the written contract specifically says that any oral agreements are not binding, only the text of the contract is binding. So the salesman can feed you any line of bullshit he wants, but until he makes a written offer anything he says is suspect. I got my car at Hertz Sales though, and they don’t screw around like that. It’s also a no-haggle deal, so if you are an aggressive negotiator you might get a better deal wrestling with a traditional salesman, but I like the low pressure.

15

First off while I do not know the exact laws for NY, in the states I am familar with buyers remorse does not equal lemon. Lemon laws are for the remedy of safety or value related defects. Nothing you have posted here support that. I would sugest that you not follow this path, it just might make you look like an idiot.
Calling Toyota (or writting a letter) might be your best bet.

Oh and typing WWW.toyota.com was too hard to figure out on your own? :slight_smile:

16

I guess I must be a little upset, Rick. That link is the logical one, and thanks for it.

17

Whoops! Thanks Donut.

Tripler
Ignore this man behind the keyboard.

18

Also read this, its cool:
Confessions of a Car Salesman

"What really goes on in the back rooms of car dealerships across America?

What does the car salesman do when he leaves you sitting in a sales office and goes to talk with his boss?

What are the tricks salespeople use to increase their profit and how can consumers protect themselves from overpaying? "

http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying/articles/42962/article.html?tid=edmunds.n.mainindex.advice.buying.4.*

19

Airline miles don’t add up to a lot in cash. They are worth between 1¢ to 1.5¢ per airline mile.

So a $9,000.00 is between $90.00 and $135.00.

That is why I wouldn’t be terribly impressed when they give you 5,000 miles to sign on with their new product. (5,000 = $50 to $75)

On AA today I can get a discount NYC to Chgo airfare for $139.00 but I can’t get a free ticket for 9,000 points. Better to pay the cash and save the points.

20

That’s why I estimated that the two consideration (30 day loan on 9 grand and airmiles on 9 grand) were worth about $200 in cash value.

Anyhway, I popsted an update, but we must have some voracious hamsters, because I don’t see it up here. Happy ending: I went back, armed with the good advice I got here, and found my original salesman and after some prodding he agreed to go in to the boss’s office and raise hell. End result: I got my personal check returned to me, I signed the credit card slip, and I got the car on the terms I had agreed to. The saleman (supposedly) is having the credit-card company’s fee deducted from the commission he’s getting, and was (supposedly) warned not to make such an arrangement ever again–whether that’s true I don’t know and don’t really care.

Just wanted to thank you folks for your kindness and the benefit of your insight. As usual, I got to think things through, while learning some stuff, being entertained (great link, Handy!), and getting to vent–all on the SDMB at the same time.