I know what makes the most sense when the facts and evidence have been examined using logic. And I know what’s demonstrably wrong.
Logic would imply that governments with black budgets and accountability to only the select few are more than likely to put some of that money into nefarious projects. It’s the nature of the beast that is power and authority. If it helps you sleep better not contemplating these kind of thoughts, who am I to disavow you of your peace of mind.
Go back to sleep, all is well in the world.
“It’s impossible to know what happened, therefore all explanations are equally valid.” That about right?
Its funny how that happens when all the evidence points to what I consider to be the truth.
If I have ‘been told’ it is by experts in their fields, and agreed to by similar experts in other nations, including nations not always friendly with the United States.
Give us facts, not piffle-paffle psuedo-intellectual agnosticism.
So secretive governments are evil and we’re sheeple. Got it.
Well, no, I do believe that there are nefarious things afoot; for items like in the tainted gathering of information to get us to invade Iraq there is evidence of the evil that was done in order to get it.
However, In the case of the World Trade Center and the Pentagon there is **no **good evidence to show that the collapse was not caused by the planes crashing into them.
Well, the people propagating this theory are nutballs…that’s why. 
Ok. You need to wrap your mind around the crazy here. But it’s something like this. The planes flown into the towers were basically props. The flights were fakes (don’t ask how…focus), flown by remote control into the buildings to make their subsequent fall plausible by us poor rubes (though some acknowledge that they were real flights that were controlled by the CIA or whatever). Why? Because obviously air planes CAN’T bring down such structures (I realize it’s circular logic…stay focused), and so the government or Israel/Evil Jewish Cabal™ needed to ensure they WOULD come down. So, they rigged the buildings for a ‘controlled demolition’ and then staged the air craft flying into the buildings part as a smoke screen.
Some of the 9/11 CT nutters actually think the planes were complete fabrications…IOW there WERE no planes (there IS no spoon…focus). Hell, for all I know some of the really nutty ones don’t believe that the towers fell at all…or that there ever was a WTC. Some of these guys probably don’t believe in gravity or fire either. Someone asked what the CTers think might be on the black boxes earlier in the thread? That’s the answer…either that the planes were actually empty (drones) or that some mysterious entity had taken control of the planes and remotely flew them into the buildings. The fact that the black boxes (which everyone KNOWS are indestructible) were conveniently ‘lost’ PROVES that the planes were either fakes or were taken over by remote control (or anything else that doesn’t involve ME terrorists actually taking them over).
Well, it’s more dramatic for the towers to have come down than if they had simply been hit by planes and burned a bit. Besides, a cover up was needed about the fake ‘planes’ (or, perhaps, about the remote control hijack thingy)…and the only thing that would distract from the investigation would be if the towers came down, hiding or obscuring the evidence. Also, there are some CT’s that posit that it was actually the WTC buildings themselves that were the REAL target (embrace the crazy!), and that everything was geared to cover up their destruction in any way possible.
The thing is, most CTers don’t really go into much detail about WHY the government or the world wide Jewish Cabal or Israel or whatever actually did the deed. They simply put together a lot of ‘evidence’ and conjecture (much of which is either inaccurate or simple ignorance of things like materials science, structural engineering, etc etc) with some anomalies (which, given the level of chaos in such a huge event are bound to crop up) and a touch of the fog of war endemic in the situation to spin together what they think is clear evidence that there was a conspiracy (other than the actual conspiracy). At a basic level I think that many of the CTers simply can’t except that the US could have been hurt so badly by a bunch of religious fanatics who got lucky, so they are groping for some other explanation that, to them, is more comforting. It’s a lot like the folks who just can’t accept that Kennedy could have been shot by a lone nutball…I think to some it’s more comforting to believe that it was some vast, shadowy organization behind it all.
Sez you! 
I find mutant space chipmunks by far the most plausible explanation…
-XT
You know what makes a building fall into it’s own footprint?
Gravity.
A skyscraper isn’t going to topple over like a solid block, because it isn’t a solid block. It’s a framework of steel girders surrounding empty space. When the steel breaks, what happens? Gravity pulls the building down–straight down. That’s because gravity doesn’t pull things sideways, it pulls things down.
You have no proof or evidence for your belief. You automatically dismiss those who try and debate with you even though they use science to do so. But some how you equate their side to religious fundamentalists. I don’t think you have thought that argument through. It is not hard to see the flaw in your thinking methods.
Proof or evidence?
What kind would completely satisfy you? ‘Evidence’ that neatly fits within your world view and doesn’t include shadowy ne’er do-wells? Do you think the type of people capable of organising or manipulating something like this, would be keeping minutes and sending out memos? Plausible Deniability gives a group in positions of power and influence a lot of room for abuse of said power and unless you can convince me that govts. and the military don’t have this option on the table anymore, my general tendency will be not to trust those in authorative positions as far as I can throw them.
One advantage my flawed way of thinking has over your completely rational and scientific stance is, if ever it came to light that I was in the right, I would simply say “Meh! I told ya so!”, whereas your world would completely fall in around you and all your cherished beliefs would be dashed to dust…kinda like those towers.
Since you specifically have not stated what your beliefs are it is pretty hard to set up parameters as to what would constitute proof or evidence. Par for the course.
Kind of my point. The planes hit, the towers don’t collapse, and “only” 800 people die in impact and fire. The NYPD and NYFD manage to save a whole lot more people (and lose a lot less of their own), but the USA was still attacked by a bunch of Arabs supported by a government in Afghanistan and the rage from that can later be directed into Iraq.
The towers are deemed unsafe because of the damage and need to be demolished anyway.
So, the Evil Cabal gets the exact same result and their conspiracy is a lot smaller and can’t be compromised by any jackass with a camcorder.
Again, why make it needlessly complex?
-Joe
Except it already has come to light that we’re completely right, but you refuse to admit it.
Also, “all your cherished beliefs”? You greatly underestimate how much I care about things that aren’t this,
To paraphrase Penn Jillette: My world might be turned to dust, but you wouldn’t notice because the entire world of known physics and engineering would turned completely on its head to satisfy the equations of truthers. Science as we know it will have gone completely wonky, just for 911.
If you could flap your arms and fly to the moon, I’d concede that you have an ability far beyond those of mortal men.
Let me know when you’re ready to give it a shot.
Categories of 911+Aftermath Conspiracy Theories V1.0
I 9/11/01
A. 19 Taliban et al terrorists crashed hijacked planes into the towers, bringing them down ***** The ‘official’ explanation, no?
B. Someone other than the culprits in A are responsible
a. The U.S Government is the culprit
1. They controlled the planes/they only looked like planes/there were no planes.
2. Demolition~. They knew the planes were coming, and had particular buildings rigged to fall.
3. They hired/allowed someone else to do it for a fascist/socialist/oligarchic etc. purpose.
b. Jews are responsible. They caused any of the scenarios mentioned in a above.
1. The attacks conveniently provoke America to attack Israel's enemies.
2. A Jewish businessmen and his associates/cabal profited from the scheme
3. Jews are inherently evil- 911 didn't profit anyone anywhere, but that wouldn't necessarily dissuade Jews from doing something
c. Corporate Interests and the above scenarios
1. Global Oil is vastly wealthy, and also unstable. Who has a better motive?
2. Corporations wanted to cover up/escape from other crimes
d. The Illuminati or some other secret cabal/interest group did it
1. What else did you think The Illuminati were about anyway?
e. Space-based mutant mammals of debatable species (since they're mutants, the species is indeterminate) worked alone or in conjunction with any of the above in any of the above scenarios.
~Demolition Theory Categories
A. Exotic Methods
a. Thermite
b. Fake planes/missiles
c. Other- it’s so new and advanced, it doesn’t look like anything you’ve heard of.
B. Suspicious Activity
a. Building collapses resemble demolitions
b. Evidence was quickly removed without proper investigation by ‘authorities’
1. Yes, even the flight data recorders
a. Flight Data Recorders wouldn't be found, since there were no planes, and the evidence is *covered up*
c. Weird videos/image from the WTC event provoke suspicion
1. What's that melting liquid?!?!
2. How did this beam get cut this way!?!?!?
3. What is this residue?!?!?!?
4. How did a basement beam deform as if from a 'point source' ie explosion? Explosions contradict the 'official story'
II Aftermath
A. Afghanistan War
a. The Taliban were the culprits of 911, and the United States attacked Afghanistan in response. *****‘Official’ reason US invaded Afghanistan, no?
b. The Taliban were responsible, but 911 wasn’t worth a war. US government actors used 911 as an excuse to invade Afghanistan
c. The Taliban weren’t responsible, they were simply blamed
1. Republicans, PNAC, neo-cons, or some other group of government actors wanted our military in the country east of Iran for part of a larger military plan.
2. Afghanistan too unstable- government/oil/corporate interests use invasion to support an oil pipeline, political hegemony, global strategy, etc.
B. Iraq War
a. Mistaken about the WMD threat in an over-heated post-911 atmosphere, US attacks Iraq ***** 'Official' reason US invaded Iraq, no?
1. Belief in later discredited conspiracy theory involving Iraq, Saddam Hussein, and the terrorist use of nuclear/ biological weapons being built/stored in Iraq motivates the war ***** 'Official' reason US invaded Iraq, no?
b. Flaunting UN regulations was a sign that Saddam/Iraq was a threat ***** 'Official' reason US invaded Iraq, no?
1. Part of a resurrected Caliphate?
2. Iraq was poised to conquer the whole ME a la Hitler.
3. Iraq could destabilize the region/ was up to something
c. Iraq caused 911 and should've been attacked ***** Failed, documented motive to spark the Iraq war, no?
d. Motive for invading Iraq is pre-dates 911. 911 was used as an excuse to invade Iraq.
1. Government, oil, corporate and/or military interests influenced the government to invade Iraq for its own profit.
2. Bush was angry with his father, and used the Iraq War to settle a dispute.
3. Bush personally hated Saddam/ had other personal motives for forcing an invasion of Iraq.
4. Dick Cheney ran the government.
5. Congress wasn't duped by the WMD theory, it was in on the plot. Enough of them anyway.
C. 911-era Changes To The Constitution
- not discussed in this thread.
It isn’t perfect, and sorry the format doesn’t come through…
Comments?
Trivial refinement - only some of the 19 were on planes that crashed into the towers. Others were on the plane that hit the Pentagon and still others crashed their plane near Shanksville.
That’s right, thanks.
Quick question - Was KSM meant to be the ‘missing hijacker’? If not, any guesses what happened to Terrorist #20?
I’m not familiar with this story… do you have a link?