Sometimes they get out before I get a chance to open the door for them.
I’m a gentleman. What can I say?
Well put.
It seems strange to me that others find it strange that this is done- it has always been standard in my life. (Though I do wonder if it is still polite to light a cigarette for a female companion).
My boyfriend has bad feet. He’s neither old nor disabled; it’s just that after walking all day, his feet will hurt a lot. Mine won’t. So when we’re on a bus or subway, if one of us offers a seat to a stranger, it’ll be me, and a lot of people in this thread would write him off as “not a gentleman.”
For those who find it strange that people find the idea of gentlemen standing for ladies strange - in my case, I find the implication that any man is better off standing than any woman false and condescending. Seats should be offered for those who look like they could use them, of course; but which is more rude: to assume need or lack of need? A hard and fast social convention of “men give their seats to women” is unflattering to both genders. I don’t expect any fellow passenger to give up a seat for me, because they might have a reason not to that isn’t visible, and it’s none of my business or anyone else’s.
When I’m going to go somewhere with my dad and we’re heading to the car, he always goes to the passenger side and unlocks and opens the door for me first, and then go to the driver’s side and lets himself in. And I’m a guy. (Of course, when we’re getting out of the car it’s each man to himself.) I’ve always thought it was strange and have told him multiple times it’s not necessary, but he still does it!
Like some others, I’m perplexed at how the first part of this paragraph and the second paragraph fit together. You’re perfectly capable and independent when it comes to seats, but when it comes to doors I’m expected to run ahead so I can open it for you…? Huh? I’ll hold it open if I’m in front of you naturally (as I’d expect you to do for me), but no way am I going to go out of my way to jump ahead of you to do it! (Unless, of course, you’re particularly old or frail, etc. etc…)
I’d say very rarely do two people arrive at a seat at exactly the same time. If I do arrive at a seat exactly as someone else is going for it, I’ll defer to the other person, regardless of their gender. But if, for example, I’m getting on a bus and I’m ahead of a (healthy, unencumbered) woman in line at the bus stop, I will definitely take the empty seat instead of standing or offering it to her.
I think this is aimed at me, and I don’t feel it is “false and condescending”. No more so than paying for a restaurant on a date, or arranging to pick you up on that date.
If he’s got bad feet, maybe he should use a walking stick to transfer some of the weight? It would also indicate that he’s infirm.
It was not intended personally but generally, though I used your phrasing. Sorry about that.
I do however also think that paying for the restaurant and doing the driving are perfectly gender-neutral gestures.
Does a woman ever get to be a gentleman, if being a gentleman means performing some small act of good manners and responsibility for a companion’s or stranger’s well-being? I like doing such things. Should that pleasure belong to men alone, and if so, why? What does gender have to do with good intentions?
Maybe in his case, he should. But that’s not my point. What about the guy with perfectly good feet who had a rough day at work and wants to sit down for a while? What visual cue should he carry to show that “hey, I’m a gentleman, really, I just need this seat today”? People shouldn’t have to make a case to be allowed to sit without appearing rude. Women usually get a free pass on this, and men don’t. Again, why? What does gender have to do with need?
I never expect anyone to offer up their seat for the most part. If there is some extreme case like some obviously infirm person and no one offers them a seat I may be annoyed at the bus (or whatever) in general because the odds are that someone needs the seat less than the infirm person, but not at someone in particular.
It is entirely my own code and world view and today’s society is so blasted confusing with what is expected and what is offensive I’m not going to think badly of someone for not doing something like offering his or her seat in most cases.
I avoid the issue by just getting up and standing whenever things get crowded. I don’t feel like dealing with the stink eye looks because I’m either not a gentleman or I’m a chauvinist pig.
I don’t think my status as a gentleman has anything to do with giving my seat to a woman. I stand, because I can, and I don’t like stink eye.
Giving up a seat or opening a door are both nice gestures, but not required (for me). And if offered a seat, unless I was particularly tired or sick, I would probably refuse politely. After all, I don’t see that I’m more deserving of a seat than anyone else.
Once I was walking into the library, and had a couple of books in my hands. Just as I got to the door a guy reached the door also and said ‘oh, I got it’. So he opened the door, I said thanks and walked through. This library has a large foyer type area, so in about 15 feet there is another set of doors to get into the library itself. Well, I walk pretty fast, and when I reached the second door the guy was behind me, but I heard a distant ‘I can get it!’ I would have felt like an idiot waiting for someone to come open a door for me when I was already there and perfectly capable, so I half laughed and said ‘that’s OK, I got it’. I sit down to start reading, and a minute or two later this guy walks up and chews me up for not letting him open the door for me. Something about ‘if someone is trying to be nice you should let them’. I think I was kind of taken aback at the time and gave a puzzled apology, but whenever I think about it now I get a bit indignant about that. I think as long as I am polite in the refusal, I shouldn’t have to let anyone do anything for me!
I like doing those things too, and as a woman, I obviously don’t feel it should be restricted to men - really, it just seems common decency, regardless of who offers and who accepts.
I always hold doors open for people coming in behind me, unless they are taking enough time that I’d end up looking like an unofficial doorperson. I think it’s nice when someone holds the door for me, but that doesn’t seem to happen as often. If offered a seat by a man on the train or some such, I’m not offended, but sometimes I’ll say no - especially if I won’t be on for many stops, or if the train is still filling up, since there’s a chance that someone with kids/packages/etc. will be getting on after me. It’s not meant in any bad way toward the man who offered.
As to waiting for a man to open a car door for me, well… back when I was a teenager, the father of a girl I babysat used to insist on doing this for me. It felt kind of silly to me, overly chivalrous considering I really needed no help, so one time I went ahead and got out of the car without waiting for him. You would have thought I’d committed a major crime, by his reaction. I’m sorry to say that freaked me out so much that if a man offered to do that nowadays, my first reaction would be major discomfort.
I like that. It seems that being a gentleman is reserved for men to do, and women to be the recipients of, and of course a true gentleman would never acknowledge a lack of reciprocity. The idea of women basically being “gentlemen” in return is nice. Especially since “being a lady” has apparently taken on negative connotations.
To those posters who claim that manners or good behaviour never go out of style (or that they do it because they are gentlemen), I’m confused: to what kind of ladies does it apply? Are all women automatically ladies to those self-professed gentlemen, or only those who dress daintly? Because I wear jeans and sensible shoes, and I can’t remember anybody offering me a seat on a subway or bus because of my gender. I do however get up to offer my seat to elderly looking people (of both genders), and to handicapped*.
- Although people who wear the three dots or have some other handicap not related to standing often say “no, thank you” at this offer.
Or maybe people over here are more emanicapted from old-fashioned notions of gender behaviour. While in the 60s, men were expected to pay the restaurant bill, nowadays nobody bats an eye when I pay the bill instead of my fiance, or if we split it (depending on how much money we can afford at the moment).
On the old homepage, there was in the “Teeming Millions” - the irregular journal - a very thought-provoking article by one of the female dopers about why so-called chivalry is wrong, by going to the basics of it. The gist as I remember it was that by holding doors open, paying the restaurant bill and bringing flowers, women are reduced into a role where they can only pay with one currency - sex - because that’s how it fits into that system. Not that everybody who acts like a “gentleman” and is chivalrous is activly thinking of having sex with that particular woman, but that no other way of payback is acceptable under that code.
That’s why I think it’s better - as many of the previous posters have indicated - to only look at real disabilites that make sittting down preferable. Just turn off your inner monologue: your are a real gentleman if you treat all people nicely, not only women.
And as woman, I don’t feel special when people open the car door or the restaurant door. (I do appreciate it at work when my arms are full or I’m pushing a cart - but that’s not gender. I also sometimes hold doors open for my male superiors - out of politeness, or because I’m first.) I feel as if they think I’m infirm/weak or something which is old-fashioned. As an earlier poster said, having a vagina is not an illness.
This thread reminded me of a charming story by the old-fashioned writer Jo Hannes Roessler (written in the 50s, when times still were old-fashioned), where he explained how, when riding the street car, he gives up his seat for a young 20sth. woman, while letting the old white-haired woman stand, and gets the evil eye for it: because he knows the young woman works in shop standing on her feet all day and therefore, really needs to sit down, while the old woman works part-time at the cinema and sits all the time anyway, so she can stand a short time.
I don’t think I’ve ever been offered a seat because I’m a woman. Nor do I remember witnessing it. It strikes me as odd.
I’ve often wondered how people can be so selfish as to not give up their seats to a pregnant woman, and felt rather guilty the other day when I failed to do so inadvertently (along with a bunch of other people). Just the tendency to block out everyone else on the train/bus I guess…
Once I didn’t give up my seat to a pregnant woman on the bus. I must’ve had a look of abject horror on my face or something when I realized it, because when I got up (to leave) and looked at her trying to get comfortable standing she said “it’s okay, you were reading!” really cheerfully, I still felt so bad though.
I agree with you. Most of the time I’ve offered people seats or other assistance I’ve been turned down. I never objected, although I was puzzled the first few times. But I finally realized that if they specifically said they didn’t need help, ignoring or dismissing that would be patronizing.
I’m hardly the most experienced person at riding on public transport, but I like to stand, generally. I get motion sickness, so I don’t like to ride sideways or backward and standing seems to keep me feeling better.
As for the door situation, what I hate is when someone will hold open a door from the inside so you have to squeeze past them. It’s always men, it seems, and they just won’t go out the door to get out of your way, noooo, they have to push it open really awkwardly while you’re trying to go through.
If you do that? Don’t do that!
In this scenario, I’d probably give the other passenger a chance to take the seat. If they don’t take it, I’ll sit in it.
As for already having a seat…
Ascribing infirmity is not manners or gentlemanly. If there’s someone I think might prefer to have a seat, I might attempt conversation, see if they indicate interest in my seat, and then offer.
Someone who just looks like they’ve had a tiring day may qualify.
If your supposed claim is girly bits, probably not going to happen.
He’s putting you out as bait for any crazed axe murderers in the back seat.