Must be location, as I’ve been offered seats even though I usually wear jeans and T-shirts (female). And I generally accept them, of course. Only if my stop is coming soon or I see someone immediately around me that I think deserves it more do I refuse.
Which is why I’m a bit confused at the number of women that say that unless they’re with their arms full/really tired/pregnant, something along those lines, they politely refuse. Huh?
Again, it’s probably related to upbringing, but if someone offers me a seat (which I don’t think most people deny it is more comfortable than standing, usually) I will not turn it down… nor start thinking about deep sociological implications. I just smile, thanks, and take it. After all, it is not something that happens too often, and sometimes it makes my (otherwise tired and crappy) day.
Given all the replies in this thread, it is apparent that giving up your seat and holding open the door and all other “gentlemanly” actions are not standard at all. The second page of this thread seems to be pretty split down the middle as to whether it’s even ok to continue to do these actions.
The thing is, I consider my husband to be a gentleman, in the sense of the word that means well-mannered. He does not open doors for me (unless he gets there first), he does not carry all the groceries, he does not pay the bill at dinner (we share a checking account anyway, but it’s about half and half), he rarely buys me flowers or chocolates. These are all meaningless, outdated symbols. And quite frankly, if he did something like insist on paying the bill or insist on opening car doors, I would feel uncomfortable in my relationship with him, not special. My husband is a gentleman because he treats me as an equal - we make decisions together, we share our burdens with each other, we both work and we talk to each other about our work, and what is important to us. If we’re going to bandy around the term “gentleman” as meaning “well-mannered” then let’s have it mean treating all others with respect, rather than opening car doors for women.
This says it all way better (and more succinctly!) than I could. Can I use this as a sig?
I am, too. I’m capable of standing, opening doors, pulling out my own seat at a dinner table, etc., but I still appreciate when a man offers his seat or grabs a door for me. I also wouldn’t mind a date ordering for me (ordering to the waitperson; I assume there would be some discussion of what I actually wanted but I admit this hasn’t ever happened), taking my coat, etc.
I’m sure there’s a line where I’d start to think things were a little weird but I’m not sure where that line would be. A man draping his top coat over a puddle so I don’t have to muddy my shoes? I dunno.
I also like doing such things, and when I do, I think of myself (or other women who do such things) as a “lady.” I don’t see that as a negative term at all and has nothing to do with . But, YMMV.
When it happens, I’m thinking “we’re both equally tired, uncomfortable, and have to suffer through a long day. And he got there first. He wins.” It seems more fair to me. Again, I appreciate the offer. But for me, taking his seat when I don’t really need it would be inconsiderate of me.
Do you mind if I ask where you live? NRW? Because I’m in Munich, and newcomers (esp. from the Rhineregion) often complain how “cold” the natives are, esp. in the subway.
I wouldn’t have guessed that based on your male username!
Seconded. That’s why I dislike these so-called acts of chivalry because they are only aimed at women, not at all humans. And the idea that women need to be put into a special class of their own apart from normal humans doesn’t make me feel appreciated, it makes me feel patronized (which I dislike).
Just going by a feeling, not cites and proper comparision, my guess is that the history of human societies, and in cultures today, the more the guys proclaim to revere and “respect” the women, the less rights women have. So I prefer to be treated like a full adult human being and stand in the subway, instead of getting a seat but not all rights. (Yes, I know not everybody who offers me a seat wants to take my rights away…)
Not even close. Caribbean (Puerto Rican) born and raised. The last ancestors who came from Germany exchanged that cold country for sunshine over 150 years ago. Good idea, too.
But yea, I second the “cold” comment sometimes.
amirinth, that makes some sense. At the same time, I know that for me at least, when someone declines an offer (of something, however small) that I give… well, I don’t feel “right” either. And if it is done repetitively, I find it a bit inconsiderate, too.
Certainly, I feel that if someone gives up the seat that person is either not that tired or willing (for whatever reason) to stay standing for a while. So no, I don’t feel inconsiderate taking his place (but I see your point better).
I always figured the etiquette was to stand first, and if you say anything at all, say it while or after you’re standing. But just standing up and perhaps a friendly smile should be enough.
And if it looks likely that all of the seats on a bus or subway will fill up, I’ll stand anyway, regardless of who’s waiting. Most of my work and leisure activity is done while sitting; I can afford to stand for an hour or less on a bus.
If you’re referring to offering a seat to a woman specifically because she’s a woman than of course it’s outdated. Chivalry is, at its core, a fundamentally sexist belief (behavior?) system. Some people are vehemently opposed to treating the genders differently, and I can understand the sentiment if not the vitriol. Others, myself included, do enjoy realizing some of the more traditional gender roles (it’s a pseudosexual thing really, apron-clad housewives are just hawt) but I make an effort never to impose my personal ideals on the public at large.
That being said, if I’m going to offer my seat to somebody, it’s going to be a female, or somebody obviously handicapped or senior. I’d never offer my seat to an able-bodied man.
The last ancestors who came from Germany exchanged that cold country for sunshine over 150 years ago. Good idea, too.