Giving wine to children

In My Humble Opinion
41

NZ has a very strong culture of teenage binge drinking. Too often the attitude seems to be, “I’m going to buy a couple of kegs for my 14 year old and his mates and however many gatecrashers we get. Because if I don’t then someone else will. And I may as well have them plastered here because then I can get plastered at the same time.”
It doesn’t take a huge proportion of the population with that spurious reasoning to create big problems. Alcohol (up to 13%) may be purchased 24/7 from supermarkets. The legal purchasing age has recently been lowered from 20 to 18. (Whose brainchild was that?) People under that age may legally drink as long as there is adult supervision. (Adult may be 18. There is no legal restriction in quantity.) And I have not heard of one case of prosecution where minors werre supplied with alcohol with inadequate supervision. In short, we have a problem of our own creation and the law is pretty toothless.

I like the concept of wine as another foodstuff and something to be had in moderation with a meal (or popcorn). But I suspect here the culture change required is sufficiently great that we need to swing the pendulum back further in the opposite direction for a time in order for it to settle in a reasonable and moderate position.

42

I am an American but long ago dicovered that other countries occasionally do something better or simply have a more sensible attitude about a given subject. In the case of alcohol I believe European attitudes are more reasonable than those you refer to above.

Your decision not to drink until you are completely legal certainly does you credit as does your obviously high regard for the law. Speaking only about my personal situation, the US laws are not really applicable as I am non-resident.

Yes, you are quite correct. My statement was intended to be a general observation about teenage kids and was not intended to apply to every child ever born. I would have thought this obvious.

Regards

Testy

43

When I was about 7 or 8 or on Xmas, a friend and myself were instructed by his parents that we could have whatever we wanted from a modest array of pretty colored and beautiful bottles. They were all bottles of aperitifs and high powered brandies and whiskeys, the only admonition was that we had to share a tiny cup and only a cup… of course we thought it would be great to mix everything, this pretty yellow one (frangelico), some of the icky brown with the cool label (JD) and some of that red stuff (vermouth). Needless to say we took one sip and about threw up, that full cup stayed there all night. I couldn’t understand how or why people would drink that stuff, made me think adults must have some special tastebuds or something.

44

As a kid, I was offered wine and beer, but I never liked the taste. Bitter, sour, fermented stuff, bleh ! As a 12 year-old I used to say: “I like grape juice, but not when it’s gone bad”. Only in my twenties I learned to appreciate wine and beer. So yes, I echo the sentiments of everyone else that demystifying alcohol for kids is a good thing. That’s the way it commonly done in the Netherlands. Over here, we don’t sell alcohol to under-sixteen year-olds, but we don’t outlaw kids drinking. It’s perfectly legal for a parents to order a drink in a bar for the kids that accompany them.

Good point!

For some kids, (mostly girls, imho) a sugar-addiction can make drinking easier.

I didn’t like beer or wine, but, whenever I had the chance, I would binge on advocaat (egg-nogg), sweet liquors like Kahlua, Passoa, Baileys, Safari, rum-Cokes, and alcohol-filled chocolates. Those were just a form of liquid candy, and I’ve never been good at restraining myself when it came to candy.
The alcohol I just tolerated, my interest was in the sweet creamy dessert-like stuff. It would have been odd to order a dessert in a bar, but no-one would think I was weird when I ordered a Baileys or a Bacardi-breezer. I never liked soda’s: the aggressive bubbles gave me unbecoming burps and I could feel it eating away at my teeth.
It’s a good thing I didn’t go to bars very often. :slight_smile:

I was surprised to learn that alcohol filled chocolates are illegal in the USA, even for adults.

45

And that reminds me that it might be a good thing to point out, to looks-conscious teenagers, thecaloric value of alcohol.

Especially the caloric value of sweet liquors.

46

I think the age at which you can legally serve (presumably small amounts) of alcoholic beverages to your children at home is something like 4 years here in the UK and I don’t think this is a particularly bad thing; I’ll let my kids have a sip of my wine or beer (which I only occasionally drink myself) if they ask nicely; I won’t let them guzzle a whole glass of it, or otherwise get drunk, but a little drop isn’t going to harm them (on the contrary, I feel it may help to remove the mystique of the whole thing).

I’d be really interested to know if there’s anyone who is horrified by the above and is simultaneously a gun owner who believes that familiarising offspring with the safe handling of weapons is a good idea.

47

Obviously I’m not horrified; and I do own firearms. I can follow what you’re thinking, and I really hope the thread doesn’t go in that direction.

48

Sorry; the last thing I want to do is to turn your thread into Yet Another Deadlocked Gun Debate, but I do think the two scenarios have certain similarities. Proper, sensible education ought to better, all round, than complete denial followed by sudden, total immersion.

49

I was offered beer & wine at a young age. It tasted gross & I was happy to leave it to the grown ups until I was about 16. At that point mom took me out & got me drunk because she felt I should know my drinking limits so someone couldn’t take advantage of me.

It’s served me well. Nobody gets me drunk & takes advantage of me unless I want them to.

50

I agree with you and have taught my daughter firearms safety and marksmanship since a very young age. She started out with an air rifle and has now fired a variety of rifles and handguns. It isn’t any kind of fetish, just part of trying to make my daughter as safe as I can.

Regards

Testy

51

Let me rephrase.

In direct response to the OP’s friend who did object to letting an 18 year old drink a glass of wine with dinner under adult supervision I would not have the same objection that the OP’s friend did. Whether or not an 18-year-old is an adult, I would have an objection to my child breaking the law. Despite the arbitrariness of the legal cutoff, it’s still there. And as you point out, the 18-year-old would now be facing the legal consequences as an adult.

52

This post is stirring up some fond memories of my Dad, and a few thoughts that are just itching to get out, so here goes.

I grew up in a French-Canadian family, and my Dad loved wine. When I was 12 and older, I was allowed to have some of the wine being served with the tradditonal Sunday roast-beef dinner, diluted with water. That way I got to recognise and appreciate the differences between Bordeaux’s, Bourgognes’s, and Cote-du-Rhones’s. Diluting wiht water cut the burning effect of the alcohol, and let my younger palate distinguish the differences.

Beer, on the other hand, was a different story. As a young teenager, Dad asked me, did not insist, but asked, if I would promise to “save” my first beer to have with him, when he felt it was time. In doing so, he made my first beer into a wonderfull coming-of-age and male/father/son bonding ritual. So, although I would occasionally sneek “tasting” sips of various beers, I never went beyond a sip at a time, waiting for that first beer. The feeling when it finally arrived, is one of my fondest memories of my father. I was almost 17, and even though it was a Miller lite, and tasted like cat-piss to me at the time. :stuck_out_tongue: I still drank the whole thing. It was almost like receiving the first communion of the men’s brotherhood. or something like that. Now I realise that I may have only “worked” because I still idolised my Dad, and was about as square as a chess-board in high-school, but it may still be a nice moment to share with your child. If you want to consider this idea.

Now about this 21 age limit so popular in the states down there. That just boggles my mind. I mean, if even for now one else, they should lower it to 18 for active members of the armed forces. If you’re old enough to be asked to risk, and maybe even give-up, your life for your country, and therefore your fellow citizens,(let alone vote), then, dammit, you’re old enough to drink in my book. :mad:

Maybe they should change the law to make it illegal to be intoxicated, period, and to facilitate the intoxication, for people under 21; goodness know we have enough ways to measure blood alcohol level, but lower the age at which you can actually drink.

The other point that has been well stated above, is that total abstinence before a threshold age tends to result in explosive experimentation once the age is reached, with no controls. In my opinion, that’s like taking an inmate whose been incarcerated for 20 years, and just cutting them loose, with no parole, no half-way houses, just bang, welcome to the world. It’s asking for trouble. Carefull, gradual, early de-mystefication has been shown to work for teenaged sexual activity, fireams and credit cards, as well as alcohool.

53

During my wife’s 50th birthday dinner a few weeks back, I did give our 16-year old daughter a very small amount of champaign to toast with. She took a sip for the toast, and then went back to drinking ginger ale.

54

I would avoid breaking the law. But as a Brit there was nothing wrong with having wine with special meals from the age of about 10, and the first time I got at all tipsy was about the age 14 on home made wine with a good friend whilst supervised by an adult. I susspect it is helpful to learn early about alcohol, as I have never partaken in binge drinking nor been tempted to do so.

55

I won’t speak for the other 49 states, but here in Nevada, it is perfectly legal for minors to drink alcohol in their own homes under parental supervision. I wouldn’t be surprised if the same was true in many, if not most other states. So, if a child is or eighteen year old adult is having a glass of wine that their parents allowed them to have in their own home, at least in Nevada, no law is being broken.

56

In Manitoba, Canada:
http://web2.gov.mb.ca/laws/statutes/ccsm/l160e.php
Minor in cocktail lounge or cabaret
93(1) No person under the age of 18 years shall enter or remain in a cocktail lounge or cabaret unless accompanied by his or her parent, spouse or guardian who is at least 18 years of age and no such person shall consume liquor therein unless it is purchased or provided by his or her parent, spouse or guardian and it is consumed with a meal in their presence.

Minor in dining room
93(2) A person under the age of 18 years may enter a licensed dining room but he or she shall not consume liquor therein unless it is purchased or provided by his or her parent, guardian or spouse who is at least 18 years of age, and it is consumed with a meal in their presence.

At least in these blurbs there is no specification of a minimum age, but minors are allowed to drink in public at certain places. However, at a wedding reception not in a restaraunt, for example, it is strictly forbidden for minors to drink even with parental supervision.

57

While the first part of your post makes it clear where/how your feelings towards alcohol developed, this part gives me pause, I have to say.
Don’t you think it would be better to actually talk to your children about alcohol, responsibility, and alcoholism, rather than do essentially punish them for something they didn’t even do (i.e., your grandfather’s alcoholism)?

58

I never said, nor implied otherwise.

59

When I was growing up in Colorado it was legal for a kid to have alchohol even in a restauraunt as long as the parents were there as said it was okay. It was very common in resort towns, I guess they were trying to be European and sophisticated or something, but the sommelier would always ask parents if their kids wanted wine. From about age 8 or so we would get about a finger of a wine glass with dinner, refilled up to twice if we asked. I remember nosy parents making comments to my dad, and he told them to fuck off. I was actually never a big wine fan(red gives me a headache) so I only had it on occasion.

I have no idea if the law has been changed or not, but my gut feeling is that more than a taste in a restauraunt isn’t acceptable anymore, but I really don’t know for sure(And I don’t care since I have no kids)

Margaritas on the other hand, :).

Back then Margs were very popular, and every restauraunt had a big on fishbowl one for cheap. My mom wasn’t a big drinker, and didn’t usually want the whole thing so me and my sister finished them off. Yummy lemonade I always thought.

Also even around age three or so I would get horrible coughs that lasted for days, and the only thing that worked was Terpin Hydrate with codiene. Nasty crap that’s around half alchohol, so I learned to take a shot at age 3 as well.

60

But how’s that relevant when we are not talking about anything illegal?