But the observer (you) is quite likely to experience a placebo effect. Is the dog more active now? Seem happier now? Who’s making that determination, you or the dog?
My experience with the animal versions leads me to believe that the pills sold for humans are nearly all filler. The dose of Cosequin powder for a 1,000 lb horse is at most a couple tablespoons of loose powder. Corta-flx has ground alfalfa mixed in, and the serving is about a quarter cup of pellet. I’m certain the “volume of necessary dose” is not the reason humans don’t always experience benefits. Most people would have absolutely no problem consuming the dose suitable for a horse. I’d be very willing to bet “unregulated product doesn’t actually contain much or any of the active ingredient” is a major reason.
Personally, I would only ever feed an animal a double-blind tested brand (of which Cosequin & Corta-flx are the only brands, so far as I know) and likewise I would only ever consume a double-blind tested brand myself.
However, it’s not a pain killer. Chefguy complained the dose would have to be sustained to have an effect. That’s correct. You have to take it all the time, not just when you have pain.
My experience with the animal versions leads me to believe that the pills sold for humans are nearly all filler. The dose of Cosequin powder for a 1,000 lb horse is at most a couple tablespoons of loose powder (a typical dose is a 1 tsp scoop morning & night) . Corta-flx has ground alfalfa mixed in, and the serving is about a quarter cup of pellet. I’m certain the “volume of necessary dose” is not the reason humans don’t always experience benefits. Most people would have absolutely no problem consuming the dose suitable for a horse. I’d be very willing to bet “unregulated product doesn’t actually contain much or any of the active ingredient” is a major reason.
Personally, I would only ever feed an animal a double-blind tested brand (of which Cosequin & Corta-flx are the only brands, so far as I know) and likewise I would only ever consume a double-blind tested brand myself.
However, it’s not a pain killer. You have to take it all the time, not just when you have pain.
As I understand it, Glucosamine is supposed to lubricate the meniscus in the joint–I don’t know if it becomes the lubricant or if it stimulates lube production, or both–if the meniscus is (not real figures) 80% worn away, there just isn’t as much to lube. And, as stated above, it’s not a pain killer and may take weeks to start working. If the joint is suffering from a different malady, i.e., torn ligament, bone spur, it may not work at all.
That’s one thing I haven’t been able to get a straight answer to from any vet, so far: is the animal in less pain or does it think it’s in less pain? With older animals, vets don’t seem to think there’s a difference–the animal will expire before the, however slight, benefits of drugs/supplements expire.
I would think that glucosmine is just like any other food that we digest and it is no longer glucosamine once digested. Our bodies have to manufacture glucosamine. A normal diet should have no shortage of what we need to manufacture it.
I was a catcher through college and my knees were shot. As I got older, they would crackle if I crouched and if I was immobile for a long time like in a plane or a long car ride, they would throb and be quite painful. On the advice of my Dr. (MD) I took Glucosamine and Chondroitin daily for six months. They no longer crackle or throb.
Around these parts it’s a standard recommendation from most doctors.
Quackwatch is not a good site to get information from. Dr. Barrett has as much of an agenda as the makers of true snake oil do, it’s just in the opposite direction.
Currently the dog is dead.
mmm
I use to take it for my back but I figured out how to fix that problem and stopped taking it. Started taking it again because of arthritis which ramped up quickly in my hands. I forgot I was even taking it but realized my arthritis is significantly better. Not too keen on taking stuff like this because I don’t know what the long term effects are but damn it’s nice getting the use of my fingers back.
My very high level specialist M.D. in an unrelated field told me that cramps in the feet and legs while sleeping is treated by drinking Gatorade. and it works.
In my case the difference was very obvious. Both dogs were listless and not wanting to move nearly as much when they did not have their pills. The Yorkie was definitely not as energetic. Did not like to go for her walk and could (would) not jump into bed.
When the lab has her pills, she “hops” when she’s “happy”. If she goes for a while without, she won’t. We don’t run out of pills anymore.
I actually wondered if maybe there wasn’t some kind of stimulant in the pills as they made so much different.
The Yorkie was 13 and we had her all 13 years. The lab is 9 and we have had her for 8. I’m pretty sure I can tell when they’re not feeling well. It’s not that hard.
I know what observation bias is, I understand causal and coincidental relations; the pills have an effect.
I’m going to try this for a week and report back. If I flex the muscles in my feet they tend to cramp up.
Or cut the extra sodium and sugar by just taking a potassium supplement and drinking 20 oz of water.
It’s true the supplement industry has issues with content control. Some have way more of whatever supplement they’re supposed to have in the tablets/capsules (rare) and many more have far less than what the label says they’re supposed to.
Part of the research you have to do is find what manufacturers have been tested to have their supplements contain what they say they do. I’m not shilling for them, but have had good, consistent results with Puritan’s Pride. I use their glucosamine/chondroitin supplements for all the shelter’s cats that have it Rx’d to them by our doctor. Results are consistently good and I save the shelter a lot of money over buying the name brand Cosequin. The reason Cosequin is recommended and consistent is because it’s sold as an RX medication and is therefore FDA regulated to have in it what the label says it has. No idea if there’s a human equivalent prescription-level glucosamine product.
Cosequin is not a prescription medication; they are just picky sbout who is allowed to sell their product, so it isn’t sold at most pet stores. You can buy it OTC from the vet’s office or at the reputable online pet retailers like Smartpak & Drs Foster & Smith, as well as through Amazon.com.
Actually I added a potassium supplement recently for that reason. Trying to cut down on sodium and sugar but I’m failing in that regard. Too busy to watch everything I consume and that is my weakness.
What is this “agenda” you feel you have detected?
And what references and conclusions in the Quackwatch article on glucosamine and chondroitin do you take issue with, and why?
My vet recently sold me some Consequin for my cat. She (the cat) has arthritis in her hips. Been giving it to her for several weeks and I think there’s been some improvement, although it’s not complete. She still doesn’t sit up straight and still uses lots of claws to jump onto things (bed, chair) that she didn’t have problems with before (she jumps part of the way and then uses claws for the rest).
Some in this thread indicate that there’s been studies showing this stuff works for cats. Is that true? How long does it take for her to get the full benefit?
It works for both me and my mom. I can feel a huge difference in how sore my knees are if I stop taking it. I can walk down stairs without pain as long as I take my G&C. Mom takes it for her ankle and says she can feel a difference too.
If it’s just a placebo, it’s not that expensive of one so I’m going to stick with it.
For our arthritic cat, we noticed an improvement in about a couple of months; she was limping pretty badly and not really jumping at all. My husband figures it was close to a year before she started trotting around the house a little bit. She stayed pretty mobile until she died about five years later, taking glucosamine mixed into her food once a day. It’s pretty cheap, and cats seem to tolerate it very well - they don’t seem to notice it mixed into their food.
This article on WebMD says no - based on study published in a medical journal which used MRI scans and pain assessment in a double-blind study.