Having survived seven years without taking my Grand Am to a dealer for repair, I have “computer problems” that must be dealt with. Just as I’m about to take their ride to work, the guy tells me, “By the way, Mr. Plant, we have an $85 basic service fee we charge.”
I have only said “Shit.” in a place of business twice.
I hope this is because they need the money (there were only three of us there) rather than they can charge anything they like since only they can solve my problem.
I’m saying “shit” as well, but it’s because your shop is so dang CHEAP.
My friendly dealership charges $164.95 for a basic electrical systems and/or “Check Engine Light” diagnosis. Plus whatever it costs for the repair.
Isn’t a base fee for just looking at something and making a diagnosis normal? If you go ahead and get it fixed at the same shop, they’ll often knock the diagnosis fee off the total service fee; at least that’s the way it worked at Bay Bloor Radio a few years ago when I got my MD player fixed.
I hope so. They want $700 for an injector and an ignition lock cylinder. My regular guy tells me that isn’t far from what he would charge. 
Yeah, if you’re outta warranty that’s normal. It’s not for “walking in the door”, it’s for ten minutes on the diagnostic equipment.
Yeah unfortunately that’s pretty standard. You can buy a code scanner yourself for about $40. It plugs into a port underneath your dashboard.
A local heating and cooling place charges $85 just to show up, even though I’m about 5 miles from their business. When my AC compressor quit working they came and put a new connector on a wire to replace one that burnt up. They said the compressor was getting old which make it pull more current. They gave me the old connector, it was cheap spade-type connector like you’d use in a car. The fix lasted about two weeks and the compressor stopped working again.
I could have called them and fussed about it, but their attitude seemed to be that the compressor was dying. So I cut the power and took a look myself. Found the same connector had burnt up again, so on the advice of a friend I went to the hardware store and found a brass/copper ground connector like you’d use on plumbing. It screws down to the post really securely. I put it on and so far it’s been about a month with no problems. Cost me about $1.00.
The point is, is doing it yourself an option, something you want to tackle? You can save tons of money.
No, they’ve probably done it by now. I might manage the injector, but not the lock cylinder. Where do you get the code scanner, and is it the same thing the gas mileage aficionados use?
No, not like the gas mileage computers. A modern car has all sorts of sensors (intake air temperature, vehicle speed, barometric pressure, etc.) and the computer reads the info from all those sensors to determine how to adjust the engine timing, spark, air, etc. If the sensors find any faults they will be reported to the computer, which stores them as trouble codes.
A code scanner should have been able to tell you about the fuel injector problem. One like this would do the basics. You can also take your car to places like AutoZone or Advance Auto and they will use their scanner to read the trouble codes for you for free. That way, armed with knowledge, even if you can’t fix it yourself you can have an idea. However, (yeah it’s never totally simple), keep in mind that just because the code scanner says that “X” is the problem, it could be that “Y” is actually the problem because it’s affecting “X” downstream.
I thought this was the same thing.
The regular chop I used doesn’t charge foro their diagnostic, but they didn’t find a bad fuel injector; we’ll see. I suspect I’m getting screwed one way or another.
Yes, that ScanTool does what the cheaper code reader does, and more. The cheaper code reader won’t show you real-time engine data.
I have one called a DashHawk and I can monitor all sorts of parameters like Engine Coolant Temperature, Intake Air Temperature, Barometric Pressure, and boost. It will also read the trouble codes, calculate 0-60 and 1/4 mile, stuff like that. All done from data through the OBDII port.
This Wikipedia Article describes what is done through the OBD ports.
So how are you going to know if they even really changed a fuel injector? Might be just a wire or something they fix for $3.00.
They should pay you for the privilege of doing a diagnostic check.
If you ask, I believe any shop is required by law to give you the part that was replaced.
Correct. (At least in Ohio)
Unless there’s a core charge. You can still get the bad part if you want, but you won’t get the core charge deducted from your invoice as you should if you let the service shop return it to be re-manufactured.
I wasn’t charged the $85.00 diagnostic, but it was $775 for the injector and lock cylinder. Ouch.
If I bought the $3,000 Honda Rebel, I could ride it in the Summer and particularly for the week it would take me to learn how to replace the fuel injector. The lock cylinder is a dealer thing with key numbers, is it not?
For the last couple of weeks I have been working at a friend’s shop writing service and helping out. (Hey it keeps me in beer money).
Our shop labor rate is $98.86 per hour.
A check engine light comes in with a 1 hour estimate.
A very large portion of the time, that 1 hour is not charged in addition to the labor charge for the repair. (A large portion of the time being in the two weeks I have been there, I haven’t seen this yet). Usually the repair is the part(s) plus 1 hour labor, or often free.
Examples: #1
Car comes in with CEL light on. Estimate written for 1 hour labor. Code is for secondary air injection system. Tech preforms test on Secondary air system using computer diagnostics. car fails. Technician discovers two bad vacuum elbows. Vac elbows replaced, and system diagnostic is done twice successfully. Problem explained to customer (widow who is out of work) parts are charged to the karma account, and labor is zero. Customer leaves for no charge. *
#2
CEL light on. Estimate written for 1 hour labor. Code is for MAF sensor signal. Technician discovers poor connection, cleans and all is OK now. Total time invested maybe 40 minutes. charge to customer? One hour.
In the above examples to do this work the technician is using the following:
Dedicated laptop $2000
Communication interface $1200.
Diagnostic program subscription $9,000/ year.
The bottom line is we have to charge something, or we would lose a little on each one, and would not make it up in volume. Trained technicians cost money ($25-30/hour) equipment cost money. A shop has to be able to make that back or they will go tits up.
It’s really no different than a doctor. You go to the doctor wait for an hour and when the doc comes in he asks “What’s wrong?”
You reply “I have the flu”
He looks at you for 30 seconds and says “You are right”
That just cost somebody (You or your insurance) $200.
Makes my rates look cheap, and his patients tell him where it hurts. 
*One of the reason I am hanging out with this guy at his shop. He has customer loyalty that most companies/shops can only dream off.
PS just for you guys that are saying go to autozone et al and the scan tool will tell all. It doesn’t. No scan tool can tell you the difference between a vacuum leak and a actuator not working. Or a bad sensor, and a shorted wire. It can be very easy to throw money at parts when the problem is in the wiring or vacuum lines.
Rick, are their procedures (your friend’s shop) significantly different from yours (Volvo dealer service, if you’re still doing that?)
For non-warrantied vehicles, we’ll say, since presumably you do things slightly differently when the customer isn’t paying…
The definative answer is it depends. :rolleyes:
I have given away stuff at the dealership. I have seen other do it also.
Generally speaking I would no charge a small repair for one of the following conditions
- Good long time customer
- Customer that I knew was having money problems*
- People who were on a trip from out of town**
People who did not rate favors:
- The guy that bitches about our horrible service and expensive prices. Glad to live up to your expectations.
- The guy that takes all of his profitable service work elsewhere and only brings the car to us under warranty or when the other shop has fucked it up beyond all recognition. The first time, I understand. But I had customers that did this over and over again. This guy got to pay the full freight.
In gneral it is harder at a dealership to give parts away. They have checks and blances to prevent theft. Labor is often up to either the tech, or the service writer.
I have seen guys like me that gave some stuff away and guys that would not give shit away. A lot depends on the cluture of the shop, and the personalities involved.
Where ever you go, I consider it important to go to one quality shop and become a regular. Regulars get more slack than someone that is brand new.
Oh, and stay the fuck away from Iffy Lube.
- I had a minister as a customer. He pretty much lived hand to mouth. One day he was leaving on a vacaton he developed a water leak. He came in and I diagnoised a bad surge tank (maybe $100) It just so happned I had done a turbo update the day before and had a good used one on my bench. I put it in (maybe 5 minutes) and topped up his coolant. I wished him a good vacation and sent him down the road. I am sure I gained 5 karma points that day.
** You always hear about people on vacation that got screwed by a auto repair ripoff. Because of this I always bent over backwards for people that were traveling.
Every visit to service there will be at least $500, uusally MUCH more!