GMO pest control methods.

I’m posting this in response to a suggestion by Mtgman in this thread:
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=801608

That thread is a pitting of people who are blindly opposed to any use of GMO technology, regardless of the potential benefits and lack of negative environmental effects. Specifically it was about people blindly rejecting GMO methods for the control of mosquitoes that carry the Zika virus.

Here’s an article about the technology being discussed.
http://www.oxitec.com/oxitecs-ready-deploy-solution-highlighted-science-zika-dna-epidemic-committee-hearing/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Wallpost&utm_term=Ready+to+Deploy&utm_campaign=Status

That thread drifted into a discussion of the idea that there may be valid objections to the method discussed, but these involve questions of efficacy and cost versus more traditional methods, while the pitting was directed at people whose objections are based on “GMO Bad!”, “Monsanto Bad!”, “It’s Unnatural!” type of thinking.

Mtgman suggested that discussion of actual intellegent pros and cons would be better off in a different thread, and I think it’s an interesting and important subject. So here is that other thread.

I’ll start out by saying that I was attracted (but not blindly attached) to the idea because it seemingly has essentially zero negative environmental effects and field trials outside the US have supposedly been very effective.

Mtgman objected that it’s cost versus efficacy do not compare well to more traditional control methods, at least in the US.

There’s a recent, balanced article in The Atlantic which discusses advantages and potential disadvantages of releasing genetically modified Aedes egyptii mosquitoes.

Some noteworthy points:

*“My opinion on how we should proceed is we should aggressively pursue Aedes aegypti control—but we haven’t started that yet, and I’m not sure there’s been the political will to do it,” said Peter Hotez, the dean of the National School of Tropical Medicine at Baylor College of Medicine. “It’s very labor intensive. It requires getting rid of standing bodies of water, putting up window screens, and doing house-to-house insecticidal spray.” The coordinated effort that’s necessary, Hotez says, goes beyond anything the U.S. has ever done to control mosquitoes in the past. As temperatures warm and mosquitoes emerge, it may already be too late for at-risk cities in the states to take the precautions Hotez describes…(According to) Ravi Durvasula, a professor of Medicine and Infectious Diseases at University of New Mexico School of Medicine…“Think about how people control mosquitoes now”. “Dumping pesticides over hundreds of square miles … driving through the city with canisters on motorbikes, spraying willy-nilly. That’s an incredibly toxic approach. As people better understand the side effects of pesticides, they may say, ‘Well, this other way, there’s nothing toxic about it, and no one’s dying from mosquitoes that are sterile.’ The more these of these kinds of diseases show up—the more big, big outbreaks around the world—I think there will be a time when people say, ‘We need to try something new.’” “Oxitec’s [approach] itself is fine, scientifically, but there are always the what-if scenarios. What if, for some reason, it doesn’t work—and reverts back to a wild-type state?”

"…what if the desired gene mutation doesn’t take, and people end up releasing mass quantities of new mosquitoes that end up making the Zika problem worse? Durvasula calls this the “most obvious concern,” but he also says it’s improbable.

“It’s also unlikely that this mutant is going to somehow mutate again and give you something undesirable,” he added. “Certainly there have been small-scale field releases where it’s been stable, it’s done what it’s supposed to do, and they didn’t wind up with bird-sized mosquitoes or something else weird. Oxitec has gone through a lot of rigorous testing, but these what-if scenarios—one can’t be 100 percent certain that this is foolproof.”

"What if, for example, the gene modification ends up altering a mosquito’s behavior—making it more aggressive, or changing its host preference. (In the case of Aedes aegypti, which already prefers humans, a change in host preference might not be so bad.) Or what if the mosquitoes end up transferring their altered genes horizontally—to other non-target species, rather than just to their own offspring? This is more of a problem with genetically modified bacteria, which has also been proposed to fight Zika, but Durvasula says unplanned horizontal gene transfer is unlikely to create any issues among Aedes aegypti that are genetically modified to be sterile.

“You can start to fantasize about every possible fate of that gene, but it’s impossible to test all of that in a lab,” he said. “And once you’ve released a trait into a population, there cannot be a recall. This is what scares people. People get creeped out by these things.”*

Based on our decades of GM crop experience, I think it’s extremely unlikely that a new Super Mosquito will be generated by Oxitec’s GM skeeter. One could make a semi-reasonable argument for a larger-scale test release in another country plagued by deadly mosquito-borne illness before going ahead in (say) south Florida. Or one could point to what one thinks is a specific flaw in preexisting research or economic viability models. But the fears/complaints I’ve seen to date have heavily centered on traditional anti-GMO bogeymen - the Frankencritter argument, Monsanto Bad! (though Monsanto is not involved here, and might lose money if we spray fewer chemicals) etc.

Lastly, I’d appreciate hearing from Mtgman why employing GM mosquitoes means we can’t utilize other control methods like eliminating standing water and providing screening for doors and windows. The limiting factor for these approaches is labor, cost, and (in the case of sparing) environmental damage, but intelligent use of all viable resources makes sense to me. You choose what works best.

The argument has been made that genetic modification of crops is unnecessary because “traditional” hybridization accomplishes similar goals. Which is true in some instances, but why not use both in a complementary way to get the best results?

Regarding another technology feared by some: antivaxers frequently tell us that vaccine programs are unnecessary because all we need to do is improve diet and sanitation and voila!, no more disease. Aside from their misunderstandings (deliberate or not) about disease transmission, it is horribly difficult and expensive to drastically fix diet and sanitation problems in a Third World country where these factors influence disease transmission and survival. Vaccines offer a much cheaper and more effective alternative, though obviously improving diet and providing clean water are goals too.

And so it goes (or should go) with genetic modification technology. It’s not a one-or-the-other situation - do whatever is feasible and provides the optimal outcome.

How could the mutation not taking make the problem worse? They’d only release males, which don’t bite, and presumable all healthy females would mate with or without the excess males.

In any case, I don’t see how Oxitec’s solution could fail to take. It’s already taken, and they can raise generation after generation of them.

By the way, Oxitec’s solution doesn’t involve sterile males. You wouldn’t even require GMO for that.

Here’s a description for those who didn’t read it in the other thread.
http://www.oxitec.com/oxitecs-ready-deploy-solution-highlighted-science-zika-dna-epidemic-committee-hearing/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Wallpost&utm_term=Ready+to+Deploy&utm_campaign=Status

So there’s a lot here. I’d like to start off saying I don’t categorically oppose GMO pest control. I think it’s a great solution in certain circumstances. The island nations of the Caribbean and the densely populated, and desperately poor, favellas of Brazil are excellent places for this technology. Especially since they’re fighting Dengue, Chikungunya, and now Zika. A 3-for-1 is a big deal.

The question of if it’s the right solution for the approximately half of the US that is affected by the invasive Aedes Aegypti mosquito to prevent the spread of Zika as a matter of government/public policy is where I have objections/reservations.

There was a long article in the MIT Technology Review a few months ago about the use of the Oxitec mosquitoes in Brazil. There was some very good news in it as well as some not so very good news in it.

To directly address Jackmanni’s question about using the Oxitec solution exclusively, instead of layering various approaches(infrastructure improvements like window screens, reducing standing water, using mosquito repellent, etc.) the main reason I’ve said that is because that’s what the public health officials in Brazil said they intended to do. Here’s another quote from the same article.

The first objection I have to this is the continuous cost and the single source for these mosquitoes. I have grave concerns about putting eggs in a single basket. Much like farmers who must now go to Monsanto for seed corn and simply have to pay whatever price they charge. Once you build your mosquito control around the Oxitec solution(as the officials in Brazil are moving towards), what can you do if they choose to pull a Martin Shkreli and jack up the price 4000%? It sounds like the cost is already pretty high, because the Brazillian government officials are talking about future cost reductions, and even after the cost is reduced they’ll still be spending the sum total of what they spend on sprays plus other expenses, like sick leave.

Another objection I have is the way Oxitec is marketing this. They don’t sell to the public, so why are they advertising on Facebook? It’s just scummy to me, like the pharmaceutical companies that run ads saying “talk to your doctor about [blah blah].”

Most of my other concerns are kind of related to the comment in the opening paragraph of my post, the differences between Brazil and island nations and the US. We don’t have endemic issues with Dengue, and although it’s relatively new to the Americas, the Chikungunya virus hasn’t reached the kind of rock star status of Zika. The US has better public health facilities, better sanitation, better infrastructure(window screens, sealed homes, air conditioning, etc.) and well established mosquito control procedures in most of the areas where A. Aegypti live.

As a matter of public policy, I think we should spend our money on developing vaccines and better detection methods for Zika infections. I think those focus areas give us more bang for our buck. Heck, take some of the money we don’t spend on retooling our mosquito control and use it to further the research to actually eradicate mosquitoes, not just control them. That’s in the pipeline. If we could push A. Aegypti back out of the Americas that would be ideal.

Enjoy,
Steven

Actually, the article to which you linked quotes no public health officials as saying any such thing, only a spokesman for the mayor’s office in one town. Actual scientists know better. From the same article: “Even a tiny amount of water, in a candy wrapper tossed somewhere, can be a breeding ground for Aedes eggs,” says Margareth Capurro, a professor of biosciences at the University of São Paulo, who has worked with Oxitec. “We have to use all control methods available now—all imaginable weapons.”

The one city health official who’s quoted supports the GM mosquito program, but does not say that other control methods can be abandoned.

*"Pedro Mello, the city’s secretary of health, believes vaccines will be what finally controls the dengue and Zika viruses. But until that happens, he says, “we need to invest in technological methods of pest control.”

“Brazil is still using methods that have been employed since the beginning of the 20th century,” says Mello. “The GM mosquito goes to places where the others methods can’t reach—the dark, cool places behind furniture and under tables, inside people’s homes and their surroundings.”*

Even if there are politicians in Brazil who think they can depend solely on GM mosquitoes while ignoring other control methods, there’s no indication that American officials are similarly deluded.

No one is talking about spending billions to cover half of the United States. The proposal on the table is limited to a small area in Florida (the Keys). The Zika threat does not affect half of the United States (the CDC has a potential range estimate for Aedes egyptii that I believe you are misinterpreting, in that the CDC explicitly states that the tentative range includes areas further to the north where there have been rare reports of mosquito sightings, but not disease spread).

Ah, the Monsatan specter rears its ugly head.

The line about poor farmers chained to Monsanto is a favorite of anti-GMOers. Except that there’s not a single farmer anywhere that “must” buy their seeds from Monsanto (or any other company marketing GM seeds) and pay a supposedly exorbitant price. They are free to purchase other hybrids, or to utilize stable non-patented seed lines and save their own seed as they desire. GM seeds have become popular because they offer farmers economic advantages.

Oxitec’s plan involves being economically competitive with other methods (i.e. mass spraying). If they tried a massive price increase they’d price themselves right out of the market in a hurry.

Except they won’t be killing off other insects (including beneficials) with indiscriminate sprays, plus contaminating water and potentially sickening people.

Anti-GMOers are spreading FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt) massively through Facebook and other media. You don’t think Oxitec has a right to try to counteract the fearmongering?

Long-term, I agree that’s one potential solution (if an effective vaccine can be developed, for which there are no guarantees). There are other tropical/subtropical mosquito-borne illnesses for which a Zika vaccine would be useless. Meantime, the mosquitoes are breeding in Florida and elsewhere and sick people are turning up, including pregnant women. Are they supposed to just hang on and hope for the best until a vaccine is developed, tested, and put into production?

Which is why a genetic tool to eliminate 80% or more of a given mosquito population, in tandem with other control methods to add to eradication, looks desirable to people who aren’t ideologically rigid technophobes.

Interesting discussion. Mtgman had me starting to lean in his direction somewhat, but Jackmannii’s post has some great counterarguments. But I do wonder if budgetary concerns allow for applying multiple methods. Although I would think that the possibility of an epidemic of microcephaly would justify the spending, especially if the federal government would step in to help.

Maybe I should just sit back and let the two experts argue it out.

I live on Grand Cayman. The government’s Mosquito Research Control Unit worked with Oxitec to do one of the first field releases right by my home a few years ago. Another round of releases is currently underway in another part of the island.

Despite reports in the local newspaper, interviews with Oxitec and MRCU officials on local television, and a door-to-door campaign to visit home in the release area, and public community meetings with question-and-answer sessions, those opposed are still claiming that not enough is being done to inform the public.

Now we hear a complaint that they are doing to much to raise awareness? Can’t have it both ways.

I can’t imagine that having an ongoing publicity campaign to get people to eliminate standing water (and sending crews out to take care of it on public/abandoned properties plus doing screening repair) would cost all that much on top of a GM mosquito release.

Certainly cost-effectiveness, along with environmental impact are issues deserving of consideration. On the other hand, Frankensquito! and Corporate Bad! are not intelligent arguments.

If we’re going to lambaste corporations for profiting from dubious scientific claims, here’s one attractive target.

That’s great. In my city the Mayor’s office decides which pest control methods actually get funded and used. Is that done by actual scientists in your area?

Now it sounds like we’re on different pages. Do you have a link to some particular proposal? Zika control in the US mainland would be orders of magnitude more complex than in the Florida keys and I’m discussing the theoretical costs/benefits of a very large roll out. I’m actually happy to see smaller projects/roll outs, because that gives us more data on how Oxitec-based mosquito control affects disease transmission, which is the real goal.

The first hit’s always free. Then once you’ve structured your business around it they can jack the prices up at a rate of ~5-7x the rate of inflation

Sometimes companies deserve to have their name associated with a negative connotation. My objections to Monsanto have nothing to do with their GMO products by the way, just how they run their business.

That’s true now. It may not be true, just like it wasn’t true for farmers who structured their business around Monsanto seeds, if the Piracicaba Mayor’s office does what they are saying they expect to do and build their mosquito control around the Oxitec solution. Just like it didn’t remain true for the Daraprim patients.

Sprays are also proving ineffective in Florida due to resistance in local mosquito populations. Sprays suck in lots of ways. The question to my mind is do the Oxitec solutions suck enough less in comparison to justify the cost of rolling them out, knowing that every dollar we spend on the roll-out is a dollar we can’t use for vaccine development or programs like Florida’s “Spill Heroes” which teaches kids to find sources of standing water and dump them out.

Oxitec has the right to advertise on Facebook, or pay people to tattoo their name across their foreheads. It’s not a question of “rights.” It’s a marketing approach I personally find distasteful.

Why does it have to be long-term? We’ve got a very slow and inefficient drug/vaccine testing and approval process. Why not hold the line on rolling out new mosquito control strategies and divert those resources to improving the throughput of the FDA? If we can find the mechanism by which Zika causes microcephaly and block it, or adapt antivirals to target Zika, or come up with a vaccine, then we skip from human-proofing the world to world-proofing the humans. That’s my preferred approach, at least until we can come up with gene editing solutions that actually eradicate the A. Aegypti invasive species instead of just reduce them.

This is petty.

Enjoy,
Steven

Would we be fucking up the environment in some way by getting rid of the breeds of mosquito that bite humans? Like if we had a magic spell that could make them extinct, would there be some unintended consequences?

The fact remains that despite your claim, no public health officials quoted in that article said that non-GMO mosquito control efforts would be discarded, and no final policy decisions had been made by anyone.

That’s the point - no one has proposed an enormous project to eliminate Aedes egyptii over half the country - just in one small area of Florida where pregnant women have been found to be infected with Zika virus.

First you were suggesting GM mosquito prices would go up 4000% (like Shrekeli’s toxo drug) - but now this specter has been downgraded to only a 108-135% increase over 15 years, like with some GM seeds? You should’ve stuck with the 4,000% figure, it’s lots scarier.
As long as there are alternative methods available to control Zika-carrying mosquitoes (despite their arguably being less effective and/or environmentally more hazardous), no GM solution can be made prohibitively expensive.

Monsanto has zero to do with Oxitec’s GM mosquito project, no one is compelled to buy a product from either company, and bringing Monsanto up ad nauseum as a bogeyman is a bankrupt tactic.

You can’t just say “rush through vaccine development”. The testing process takes time and there can be unexpected problems (we are not even close to getting an HIV vaccine, for instance). And it should be noted that there is substantial overlap between opponents of GM mosquito release and Zika vaccine development, for the same silly reasons.

I would like to see you telling women in the U.S. whose children are born with microcephaly due to Zika infection, that you opposed an effective mosquito control measure because in your opinion we needed to wait years for an effective vaccine, and besides you didn’t like Oxitec going on Facebook, and oh, Monsanto Bad.

In general the answer to “will there be unintended consequences” is “Yes, of course there will be.” That having been said, it’s hard to see what they’ll be, or how bad they’ll be.

The Aedes Aegypti mosquito is an invasive species already. Most ecosystems don’t suffer much damage when an invasive species is eradicated/mostly eradicated.

The “Friendly Aedes” gets released in vast quantities, that’s part of the strategy to make sure any non-GMO females get banged by a GMO one instead of a regular one. The males don’t drink blood, but they drink flower nectar. Maybe if there are tens of millions more of these things in the area over a month or two they’ll outcompete bees for flower nectar? That’s still pretty unlikely because bees range for miles to get nectar/pollen and A. Aegypti mosquitoes have just a few block range. Bees will probably be fine.

Maybe suddenly the food source goes way up and we have a bat population explosion because now the bats have tons of available food? Not too worried about that. Bats aren’t scary, bats are tiny mammals.

The Oxitec mosquitoes are a very clever bit of tech. They’re self-destructing. So if we do see unintended consequences, all we have to do is stop breeding and releasing them and the problem should go away in a few days, and then things can start to go back into balance.

Enjoy,
Steven

I’m on vacation but haven’t been ignoring this thread. Hopefully can add something in the next couple of days.

A bit of update…

Here on Grand Cayman the Mosquito Research Control Unit is nearing the end of its most recent trial release program. This trial was limited to a small area of the island. Traps were set to monitor the A egypti population in the target area.

The MRCU hasn’t released firm numbers yet but a report this week in a local paper indicates that it has been successful at controlling the A egypti population in the trial area. The MRCU is considering expanding the use of these GM mosquitoes island wide.

There were a few cases of locally transmitted Zika virus during the trial period, however those cases were in other parts of the island far away from the trial treatment zone. One hope for the GM mosquito release here in Cayman is that it could be targeted to successfully disrupt the chain of transmission in an outbreak of mosquito borne diseases that we occasionally see arriving with travelers. So if the Health Services Authority receives a report confirming a diagnosis of dengue, Zika, or chikungunya then the MRCU could target a release in the area of the patient’s home to attempt to prevent spread of the illness.