Dream sleep and deep sleep can be easily differentiated and the deep sleep is beneficial over all, some times dream sleep can be beneficial but not always.
We are missing the point here. Deep sleep state transcends body and mind and proves that feeling of “I” exist even without Body and Mind, that “I” is the real self or consciousness.
If I say “Gravity exists” will that be my "belief "system?
No, you are missing the point that as long as you continue to use your religion’s groupspeak you are not truly communicating to anyone outside your group.
It seems “Atheist belief system” is completely closed for Rational debate. Atheists are as ridiculous as theists in blindly following their “religious belief”.
You make an assertion that’s contrary to my personal experience, and offer a cite that doesn’t support your assertion, and I’m being “close minded” for not agreeing with you?
In Deep sleep one is not conscious of body or mind.Which part of this statement is assertion?
Why do you assume that’s the assertion I was referring to?
Some even equated this factual statement as my “Belief system”!
I am sharing an informative quotation on Three states of existence by Ramana Maharishi. Those who are not interested to read can ignore.
Question: For one who has realised his Self, it is said that he will not have the three states of wakefulness, dream and deep sleep. Is that a fact?
Sri Ramana Maharshi: What makes you say that they do not have the three states? In saying “I had a dream; I was in deep sleep; I am awake”, you must admit that you were there in all the three states. That makes it clear that you were there all the time. If you remain as you are now, you are in the wakeful state; this becomes hidden in the dream state; and the dream state disappears when you are in deep sleep. You were there then, you are there now, and you are there all the times. The three states come and go, but you are always there. It is like a cinema. The screen is always there but several types of pictures appear on the screen and then disappear. Nothing sticks to the screen. Similarly, you remain your own Self in all the three states. If you know that, the three states will not trouble you, just as the pictures that appear on the screen do not stick to it. On the screen, you sometimes see a huge ocean with endless waves; that disappears. Another time, you see fire spreading all around; that too disappears. The screen is there on both occasions. Did the screen get wet with the water or did it get burned by the fire? Nothing affected the screen. In the same way, the things that happen during the wakeful, dream and sleep states do not affect you at all; you remain your own Self.
Question: How are the three states of consciousness inferior in degree of reality to the fourth (Turiya)? What is the actual relation between these three states and the fourth?
Maharshi: There is only one state, that of consciousness or awareness or existence. The three states of waking, dream and deep sleep cannot be real. They simply come and go. The real will always exist. The “I” or existence that alone persists in all the three states is real. The other three are not real and so it is not possible to say they have such and such degree of reality. We may roughly put it like this, Existence or consciousness is the only reality. Consciousness plus waking, we call waking. Consciousness plus sleep, we call sleep. Consciousness plus dream, we call dream. Consciousness is the screen, on which all the pictures come and go. The screen is real, the pictures are mere shadows on it. Because by long habit, we have been regarding these three states as real, we call the state of mere awareness or consciousness the fourth. There is however, no fourth state, but only one state.
There is no difference between dream and the waking state except that the dream is short and the waking long. Both are the result of the mind. Because the waking state is long, we imagine that it is our real state. But, as a matter of fact, our real state is Turiya or the fourth state which is always as it is and knows nothing of the three states of waking, dream or deep sleep. Because we call these three Avastha (states) we call the fourth state also Turiya Avastha. But it is not an Avastha, but the real and natural state of the Self. When this is realised, we know it is not a Turiya or fourth state, for a fourth state is only relative, but Turiyatita, the transcendent state.
Something between 2 and 4. Maybe, three? :-))) By the way, I still don’t know your specialty – or, possibly, I’ve missed it?
I don’t think that’s a thing that has actually happened.
may be You believe 2+2 =5 . That is specialty in itself.
What has my “Belief” system or lack of it got to do when we are discussing about something Natural as sleep which is universal. I usually get “Belief system” pointer as reply, It is another thing that my system doesnt encourage "Belief "over experience.
Is it your position that the statements in post #269 are statements of fact, and not belief?
It is the statement of Maharishi who experienced the enlightened state. So it is fact for him, It may not be fact for everyone, unless one experiences it. In my system, one is allowed to skeptic unless you realize it yourself.
But deep sleep state is experienced by everyone. One need not to be a yogi to transcend Body and Mind through Deep sleep state, it happens naturally to everyone. That is precisely the reason why i started discussion on deep sleep state to begin with.
If you made up some non-sked theology about the great spirit living in the middle of the earth and calling us to it, and then posting about gravity, perhaps.
The rest of us would say that gravity has nothing to do with great spirits - just like sleep states have nothing spiritual associated with them.
Umm, 2+2 does equal 5 . . . for certain values of 2. That is math in itself.
CMC fnord!
Whether you believe or not Gravity exists. Whether you agree or not, In deep sleep state you are not conscious of your body and Mind.
Just as in dream you believe everything that is happening in dream to be “reality” and rejecting it as false while waking up to “Higher reality” of waking state.There can certainly be an higher state of “Samadhi” or Enlightenment where you reject “waking state” as Unreal. It is certainly possible. I am not saying anyone should blindly accept this possibility but blindly rejecting it would make you no less fundamentalist.
And thus we encounter the the “fuzzy” part of religion.