That is perfectly fine with me. I would be happy if my children got a really good education in the basic disciplines and nothing else. I can handle everything else just fine on my own. I suspect that most parents can.
The Gideons and the Boy-Scouts as far as I know don’t enter class rooms during school hours. If they do then get rid of them. After hours the building can be used by any community group that wants it. After all, the community pays for the building. When it isn’t in use for classes I have no problem with it being used for other things.
I am aware that in all probability you don’t know what else was taught, when, or by whom.
:: Patiently :: Yes, I managed to grasp that this was a presentation done before an actual class. Your point?
As are many fundamentalist organizations that exist solely to preach to kids at school assemblies. So?
So?
You are aware, are you not, that making kids aware of resources available to them does not require a presentation in class? And you are aware, are you not, that having a resource available to kids does not automatically give the purveyor of the resource any right to educate them about it in an organized class during school hours?
Indeed. Could it be that some bigots (and not actually referring to those in this thread defending their right to be actively involved in their children’s education) think that might actually be what it was about? Shocking! The Gay might rub off on them! :rolleyes:
And I also agree with what you said here:
… and also what matt said. It’s GREAT to be involved in your kid’s education - my sister is, and I’m proud of her for it. She takes an active role. But if you feel so strongly that every decision in a teacher’s lesson plan needs to be personally verified by you, then homeschool your kids or send them to a school you approve of and quit whining about it.
Yeah, it does, if you think that your aversion to letting your kids get ahold of information on this subject trumps the fact that there are children killing themselves needlessly, and that this information could help them find a way to be at peace with themselves and their families.
And the only way you’re going to raise your children all by yourself with no outside influences is if you lock them in a box in the basement. They’re already learning how to hate gay people; it’s a message that’s deeply ingrained into our society. Your reluctance to have them exposed to positive information about this minority does indicate a certain amount of bigotry, yes.
I’m not trying to tell you how to raise your children. I’m telling you that you have a chance to save a child’s life, and all you have to do is stand aside and let some information get through to all the kids in school. You can then discuss that information with your children however you want. But I guarantee you that there are thousands of children out there in agony, unable to talk to anyone about their problems, building a wall of secrecy between themselves and their family, becoming more and more despondent as they are constantly told that they are somehow inferior. And I’m telling you that these programs can help these kids immensely.
I don’t want to raise your kids. But it’d be really nice if more parents got to see their kids grow up.
Absolutely, schools have a right to teach concepts which violate religious beliefs. It’s done all the time, and if a child is taught something as repugnant and patently false as the garbage you delineated above, then the school has an obligation to set them straight, to EDUCATE, to eradicate the ignorant bullshit which has been implanted by idiot parents. We do not have a problem doing this with racial bigotry (and religion is often used to justify racism) and we should not have a problem doing it with homophobia. The schools need to teach that all kids are equal, and that they will be treated as such in school, and outside of school.
Because kids are committing suicide. Human life trumps sanctimonious bigotry.
Who do you think you are to be forcing propaganda promoting the gay lifestyle down people’s throats who don’t want to hear it? Parents have every right to object when this is forced onto their kids. They go to school to learn reading, writing, and arithmatic,etc; not for gays to attempt to force them to support and accept homosexuality. I’m certainly glad I never had children to be growing up in the kind of society we have today. Give society a break with the attempts to force feed gayness on the rest of us.
In regards to the age appropriateness issue: Wingspan says that its youth programs are for people aged 13-23. Why were the 6th and 7th graders allowed in a program from a group that does not focus on their age group? Given the ages Wingspan says it is reaching out to high school seems like a much more appropriate place for them. Most of the activities for QueerVoice sound wonderful for an older student but not at geared towards 11 and 12 year olds.
Thanks, His4Ever. I was worried you wouldn’t show up to this little party. But, true to form, all you have to do is mention the word ‘gay’ and there you are. Why is that, you think?
Anyway, I wanted to thank you. You’re probably the biggest force for gay rights on this board, you know. All you have to do is enter a debate, give us some of your characteristic vitriol on the subject, and suddenly a large percentage of people who were marginally homophobic decide that they don’t want to be associated with the kind of insane rhetoric you dole out.
Indeed, why not? I think that’s a tremendously good idea. And over the course of an entire school year, there’s plenty of time to discuss these things (at age-appropriate levels with age-appropriate materials and in the appropriate classes). There’s a “month” for just about everything - including gay pride in June - so why not during those months? I think it’s a splendid idea - thank you for coming up with it.
Did I say that? Did I fucking say that? I NEVER did. I realize my position is easier to attack when you totally misrepresent it, but such gross intellectual dishonesty on your part can hardly be expected to change my mind. But help me out – When does a teenager commit suicide “needfully”? And how do you tie in teaching an 11 year old about gender confusion – as opposed to the vicious effects of intolerance – to suicide? Guess if pre-teen Bobby isn’t advised that some men like to dress up in women’s clothes and be spanked, then he’s destined to either go out and bash some gays or hang himself, right?
“Raise my kids with no outside influences”? What the hell? Are you reading someone else’s posts? Or are you just making shit up as you go along? I never said I was “reluctant to have my kids exposed to positive information about this minority,” or any minority. Read my posts again, for comprehension this time. For you to willfully misrepresent my position and then have the gall to call me a bigot based on your interpretation of things I NEVER SAID – it defies belief.
Thank God. I will raise them to have minimal respect for everyone – even those they don’t agree with. And I will also raise them to listen to what people are actually saying rather than inventing something that was never said, in the delusional belief that would ever change any reasonable person’s mind.
Well, let’s see. If pre-teen Bobby has been some of his time alone at home dressing up in his mom’s clothes, and that’s the only time he really feels right about himself, and the only information he’s given about transvestitism or transgender issues is that it’s wrong, and he’s bad for doing it, and he should stop doing it, and he lives in fear of being discovered but he can’t stop doing it…
Then you have a real candidate for teen suicide on your hands.
This information being distributed could help Bobby figure out that there are other people out there that feel the same way, and that he can find a way to live with who he is.
Keeping him ignorant has a good chance of killing him.
So you would object to any discussion about religion in school? Like, say, in a history class learning about various religion related wars? Learning about the reason there is so much trouble in the Middle East? Learning that there are different religions and the basic beliefs they hold? If you would object to this… sorry, but I think you’re a loony
From Witch:
Where do you draw the line? Do you need permission for school to teach about the American Revolution (war is pretty serious stuff)… what about Martin Luther King Jr? My son’s class (1st grade) learned all about him, should I have had to sign a permission note? They also talked about Kwanza and made Kwanza necklaces last year – should they have gotten my permission first? They had a Valentine’s Day party in his kindergarten class last year… whoah! Talk about something sex related!! And they didn’t even send home a form for me to sign! My son sits at the same table as a little Korean boy. I sure wish they had consulted me first. And hey! They talked a lot about eating turkey in preparation for Thanksgiving! My son and I are vegetarians! How dare they try to indoctrinate my son!
I fail to see how teaching children to accept a portion of society is wrong. And yes, I do think that the fact that people are gay, lesbian, etc is worth mentioning. As is easily discerned from looking around you, lots of people don’t consider GLBT folk to be a “legitimate” part of society.
Sex ed… sort of tangential to the discussion at hand, but have you seen survey results they’ve done that show the absurd things that MANY TEENS think are protection against disease and pregnancy? This is a big problem in our society, and it needs to be addressed. The numbers show that in a whole heckuva lot of cases, it isn’t being addressed.
