You know, homosexuality was perfectly acceptable early in the church. The only reason it came under attack was because of a group of people called the “stoics” who held some pretty wacko ideas. Here are some other things they thought were included in the same category as men having sex with men:
-having sex with jews
-having sex with muslims
-having oral sex
-having sex with a woman for any reason other than procreation
-having anal sex with a woman
-masturbation
-birthcontrol
-pulling out before ejaculating
-having sex with a woman known to be sterile
If you are going to be against gays, then you have to be against all of that. Or your entire argument against gays is full of hypocrisy and lies.
Please, take your hate elsewhere. I am glad ignorant, intollerant hate mongers are a dying bread.
Jodi raises an important point that has not been answered.
Is there a verifiable source that spells out this school districts policies on controversial topics?
We have one teacher who says that there is no policy (or that it was not violated)…we have someone else who says it was. But MrVisible is speaking as if this is a done deal…that the teacher did not violate any policy
I work for a school district. Much like any large company…many employees of large groups often don’t know their own company policies. The school district I work for does require vetting for controversial speakers…R rated films…etc.
Maybe many posters think that this should not be a controversial subject. In the real world…for better ot worse, it is a controversial subject that requires more vetting than most curricular topics.
Until there is actual evidence that no such vetting policy exists in this district (and the word of one teacher does not do it for me…for reasons above)…I would hold off on criticizing the reaction.
Schools teach children concepts that violate parents’ religious beliefs every day; it’s called science class.
I agree that schools have no business dealing with religion in any way.
See, here we have a problem. Are you saying that gay people are exempted from general tolerance; that you have to be nice to the blacks, but kicking the crap out of the gay kid is fair game? Because that’s what we’re talking about–creating an atmosphere in schools where visibly gay kids are not targets who can be tortured with impunity. How can people ewho claim that they are the children of a loving God be against this?
To quote yet again Dr. Ambedkar, who spoke up for the Untouchables in India, “Any religion that regards the recognition of human dignity as a sin, is not a religion, but a disease.”
I will also chime in with something that was said earlier - if a similar program had been presented with “black,” “Asian” or “Hispanic” in place of “gay,” there’d be nary a peep out of any of us.
Gay folk exist. Lesbian folk exist. Bisexual folk exist. Transgendered folk exist. Teaching tolerance for them is good.
I need to repeat something Hamish said, because I think it’s important:
Silence itself is a message.
Removing all instruction about gay people from a school is not just giving an unfiltered view of the world. It sends a very powerful message that being gay is so dreadful, so unthinkable, so unheard-of, that we must never talk about it ever. That Queer people are the one segment of society that must be totally excluded from civilized discourse.
English class was about murder, disease, brutality, depression, and hardship from Grade 7 on. History class was the same. If I should have had a note sent home to hear about how love makes a family, shouldn’t I have had a note sent home to read Lord of the Flies in grade 7? We’re allowed to discuss those things, but not love, acceptance, and the message that you, Eric - you, Gwen - you, whoever is listening and needs to hear this message - can be a worthy human being and find joy in your life, regardless of what your entire society is telling you right now?
And keeping little Kim, who’s picked on for being Vietnamese, in ignorance of the resources available to her, has a good chance of killing her. And remember kids! We’re not just talking about whether this discussion was age-appropriate, or appropriately handled, no, we’re advocating keeping the kids ignorant of any shred of information about homosexuality! Because those are our only choices – tell 'em all at the age of six, or mum’s the word! Where was I? Ah, yes . . . And keeping little Gina, who’s picked on for being fat, ignorant of self-esteem groups and Weight Watchers, has a good chance of killing her. And keeping little Arthur, who’s picked on for being nerdy, in ignorance of self-esteem building classes, is a good chance of killing him. Because every kid whose life sucks as an adolescent – raise your hand if yours didn’t! – is going to off him- or herself. And because if you don’t have a dog and pony show about it in life skills class in seventh grade, there’s no room for education, ever. And because every child comes from a family of unloving bigots who couldn’t possibly love him or her enough to do the right thing by them. Better give them all to the state to raise.
Sorry MrVisible, I had to leave to tend to my little bigots for awhile. As far as the questions you are waiting for me to answer, I’m perplexed. Have you not bothered to read my replies? I know that might mean you may have to admit you’re on the wrong track, but there you go. Jodi, thank you for saying what I’m just too damn tired and aggravated to point out anymore, and putting it so eloquently. I’m sure you know you won’t get anywhere, as the original point was lost about two pages ago in the predictable “gay-bashing” U-turn (in my way of thinking it’s nothing less than a thread hijacking), but bless you for trying.
Get off the cross people. Guess what? I don’t care, and alot of people don’t care, who or what you fuck in the privacy of your own home. It’s none of my never mind. So stop thinking I give a shit. I don’t. This issue doesn’t have anything to do with whether people approve of homosexuality or not, at least for me anyway.
So, it’s up to the school administration. Not the school board. And the only thing that the teacher is currently accused of is not notifying the school board. Which he wasn’t required to do.
It is your never mind, because one of your “little bigots” could grow up to be exactly the child this program was designed to reassure, comfort, and help.
I know too many stories of grieving parents: “Why didn’t he just talk to us?” Because he felt shame, loneliness, and fear, because he was never told or told too little that there was no reason so to feel. That’s what these programs are for. That is the message the kids need to hear.
And a lot of parents think it’s not their never mind, until they’re cutting their child down from the ceiling.
While I’d prefer to know about any outside speakers coming into the classroom because in Q that’s the standard procedure, that’s about my only issue here.
I don’t have a problem with someone standing up in front in the classroom and saying, hey be nice to homosexual people and to transgender people. It’s simply not that big a fucking deal. My kids know that gay people are there, they know that some of our friends live with same sex people and some of them live with opposite sex people. It’s just a part of life for them. Transgender? So what? It’s a part of life, just like any other part of life. It’s not a great big mystery which needs to be carefully handled because if Primafloret the Elder learnt some males like to dress as females and vice versa he’ll be scarred for life.
I’m all for simple demystification and open discussion of this stuff with kids. 11 and 12 yo’s certainly are old enough IME. But then I never succeeded in keeping homosexuality a secret from my children – it is a part of their lives, just like different races are a part of their lives.
Jodi, show me studies that say that 30% of the children in those groups have a chance of committing suicide, and I’d be all for having individualized presentations in each and every school in the nation addressing their issues as best they can.
So, what’s your excuse for not doing the same for gay kids?
We get it. You don’t care. That was already pretty apparent.
What year are you in ava?
My freshman son and sophmore daughter, who are now reading this thread with great interest, say minority students take far more abuse than gay ones.
Just so you know, my kids attend a very large high school in a suburb south of Boston Ma.
If parents believe otherwise, let them pollute their kids minds on their own time with the horeshit filth like you believe.
And science, and evolution, and about poetry, and about life – and life includes the diverse assortment of people on this planet, which includes gays. You know, gays. Those people who, as a rule, are smarter, more successful and better dressed than you – oh, and date people of the same sex.
Damn right schools should tell people that its okay to be gay – because there are gay kids in those classes, who NEED TO HEAR THIS. Because if they don’t, there’s a better-than-even chance that they’ll become another gay suicide attempt, many of which are successful.
The life of a child is worth more than your “right” to not have your kids hear that being gay might be okay.
Oh, and Witch… what you call “whining,” I call a passionate fight to keep youth like myself alive.
Six out of the six people to whom I am closest suffered homophobia in school. Three of them spent their teenage years praying to God to change them. Four of them either fled, or were kicked out of their homes. All but one of them contemplated suicide.
This is here, it is now, and it is the survival of your children.
Witch, I sincerely hope that all of your kids are straight; I don’t think you could love a gay child.
Jodi, you are arguing that religious objections trump the needs of gay youth to have their issues addressed by the place where they spend the majority of their waking hours. Shame on you.
Trust me, I will remember this thread the next time you dare lecture me about Christian “tolerance.”
Gobear, Jodi showed her true colors on things like this long ago.
Religious people like her don’t care about us. They don’t care that gay teens kill themselves with great regularity, or that hte culture of silence bitches like her have instilled on our schools do such damage to the psyche of gay people that some of us never get over the scars, never are able to accept who we are, never are able to feel safe in the world. She doesn’t care, because she doesn’t have to face reality. She can curl up with her big, leather-bound book of myths and think “Gee, if only they’d pray hard enough, God would fix them.”
She, and everyone like her, is a cancer. And sadly, so long as America has this tumor, gay teens will die. Which is probably just as well, in the minds of His, Witch and Jodi.
matt…I meant whining in this thread…not in general…sorry I was vague.
I’m sorry you and your friends have endured such suffering. I truly am.
I’ve said I’ll I have to say, and I’ll (gasp) refer back to the OP…
I’ll decide what’s appropriate for my children to learn and when they’ll learn it. Not you or anyone else.
