MrVisible wrote:
Excuse me? […looking behind me to see whom you are talking to…]
You seem to have missed it the first several times I explained, so I’ll try to be more clear.
I am defending the rights of parents to make decisions for their children, and am advocating the elimination of so-called public schools.
Stop speaking for me.
Oh, please, nobody here is stupid enough to say it as baldly as I did, but I can read between the lines of the “I should have been asked” posts. I’ve had a lifetime of picking up code words said in my presence by people who call me “fag” behind my back.
MrVisible, I don’t don’t for one second your sincerity or your concern for children but
Dont doubt mine either. Especially when it comes to my own cubs.
And, with all due respect, I don’t give a shit what you “demand.” I feel like a broken record here, but I’ll say it ONE MORE TIME
Do not impose your beliefs or political idealogies on me or my children, not matter how well meaning you may think you are. It’s really none of your business. Or the school board’s. Or the state’s. Or the Church’s.
Back.
Off.
Just in case anyone wants to discuss this issue in the GREATER SCHEME OF THINGS, I started a thread in GD.
I broadened the scope a bit (should public schools teach morals), but I was inspired by the discussion here.
Um, link, link, where’s the link…
Ah, here it is http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=146416
And by the way, you go anywhere near MY kids, forcing upon them what you perceive as “help” that they need against my wishes, and you will encounter one mad son of a bitch fire breathing Indian.
Oh, yeah? Reading between the lines?! How fucking unenlightened of you, Gobear. And how much you sound like people who read between YOUR lines and claim that there is an agenda to convert kids to homosexuality!
Between the lines my red ass. :mad:
Well, in this reality, public schools exist, and I’m afraid we’re debating in this reality, and not in Libertarian-land.
So, you’re defending the rights of parents to say no to exposing their kids to accurate, factual, non-hatred-oriented information about gay people. Despite the fact that some of those kids need the information desperately. Despite the fact that the information will save the lives of some of those kids.
I thought libertarianism was about taking personal responsibility for the consequences of your actions. Well, what do you think; are the consequences (dead kids) worth it?
My god! Nobody said it! Not even between the lines. Not even between the between the lines.
If you can’t see the difference between hating gay people and being concerned about how your children are educated then there is no talking to you. I think that perhaps a general tolerance and respect class would be very good for you.
You can’t ask me to take responsibility for the consequences of the actions of someone else, Vis. I taught my kid what I wanted her to learn. I just so happens to jive with what you like. At least on this matter.
And yes, parents should have authority over their children. I do support that. Even when they don’t teach their kids the same thing I teach mine.
The difference is that the gay agenda to convert kids to homosexuality is a fantasy, but sadly, a world so hostile to gay people that gay teens often attempt suicide is not.
I am confused here. Let me run down the facts as I understand them, pleae correct me if I’m wrong.
A teacher followed ( acording to the last post revealing what was on the noon news) procedure and had a speaker from a GLTG group speak to his class.
The thrust of this speakers message was that some people are different (GLTG ) and that they should be treated no differently than anyone else, and also that certain resources were available in the community for children with questions on the subject.
Assuming that the above is true, Witch, Lib, others…what in the hell are you objecting to? I just don’t understand. I would applaud the school system around here if they took this kind of aproach when educating my son.
I’ve never said I had a problem with the subject matter being taught. My problem was the fact the the parents were not involved in the decision of whether or not they wanted their child to participate or not. I myself take issue with the age appropriateness. As I posted earlier, if this presentation had been offered to my 15 and 16 year olds, I’d attend myself.
But you know what? That’s MY decision as a parent. If another parent decided they didn’t want their child exposed to this material, that’s * their right*. I don’t have to agree with it. I don’t have to like it.
It’s not up to me. And it’s not up to you either.
Deal with it.
The only thing I would have a problem with is that this teacher did not get permission from the administration. That’s it.
I don’t know too much about Wingspan, so I can’t say how I would feel about that.
Why do you say that? I should go to a tolerance and respect class because why? It is the jujitsu of the intolerant that they claim to be victimized when they get called on their BS. What possible rationale do you or anyone have for refusing to have respect for others taught and enforced in school?
Ah, here it is. From the website of KGUN9:
I would like to add that according to the Amphi School District web page, Life Skills is an elective.
Witch, what are you afraid of? What could the big bad scary gay man teach your kids in a forty-minute lecture that would undermine your years of nurturing? Why should hearing about gay people be any different than the social studies unit on asian culture, or the history of slavery in America? Why do you suddenly need to be consulted on what your kids are being taught when this issue is at stake? And why get so defensive about it?
That I wouldn’t have a problem with.
Although, personally, I think we should be teaching all along that everyone be treated with respect.
Um, the parents don’t get to vet everything else taught in school before the fact.
They don’t get a complete curriculum of everything that’s going to be taught in English, French, math, chemistry, physics, history, geography, phys ed, and health class. They don’t have veto power over it, except to the extent that they tell their own kids it’s wrong, or pull them out of school and homeschool them.
And oddly, few people seem to complain about all the rest of it. But it’s the faggots that start everybody shrieking. I wonder why that is.
Likewise.
Sorry, MrVisible and gobear, but I think the knee-jerk antihomophobia contingent is jumping the gun here. Whether you want to admit it or not, the good people at Wingspan are a political organization. Having them speak at a school without the permision of the parents, or even just the administrative staff, is inappropriate.
Before you go screaming discrimination, remember that this case is no different from having any other political organization talk to the kids, whether that be PETA, the local Republican party, People against NAFTA, whatever. This is a political organization and they were advocating something (“Students were also given this pamphlet called “Queer Voice” which encourages youth to get involved in Wingspan programs.” <bolding mine>) It is innappropriate in a school setting, and it really isn’t suprising that a few eyebrows were raised when an organization who promotes things such as “the sex worker arts festival” bypasses the normal protacols for a school speaker.
What I am saying is this: Since the Republican Party can’t come into schools and encourage the kids to go door to door campaigning for them, Wingspan can’t either.
Now send all the kids back to their home rooms. It’s time for math class.
Weirddave, you nailed it.
And Guinistasia, the teacher went through all the necessary hoops, apparently. There seems to be one school board member who thinks that this subject matter is so objectionable, that the teacher should have gotten approval for a simple presentation on the school district level, which is apparently not standard procedure for any subjects.
If you want to learn more about Wingspan, they have a very nice web site. You might want to take a look at the story on Philip Walstead, the 24-year-old gay man who was beaten to death with a baseball bat this past July here in Tucson, blocks from his home. It doesn’t have much to do with this discussion, but the fact that incidents like these keep occurring seems to point out that we have a lot of ignorance and prejudice and hatred to overcome in this society, and specifically in this city.
The teacher who arranged this should be given a parade. And a medal.