Maybe that is what you would be doing if you thanked something else. But since you believe gratitude needs to be hoarded and guarded from anyone other than yourself, you are not a good analogy for the boy. We don’t know that he has your same views on gratitude, and in fact we have good evidence that his views on the subject differ greatly from your own.
The boy is not thanking some unknown entity. He is thanking God. He is not thanking God “instead” of the surgeons. He is thanking God.
You are still treating gratitude as something that runs out quickly and must therefore be hoarded. Will you even try to see past this narrow viewpoint and realize that gratitude and love do not have to be so limited? They grow as they are used. They are not depleted. The boy freely expressed thanks to God, which shows he does not have the same gratitude hang ups as you. Therefore it is logical to conclude that he is actually more thankful to the surgeons than you could ever be. Still, I fully expect you to persist in your belief that gratitude is extremely limited, because that is your personal experience. It’s just sad.
I love it when someone thinks they can pigeonhole me and my experiences from a few posts on an internet message board. It’s so special.
And no, I did not do the same thing to the sniper victim. I took a statement he made and used it to illustrate what I perceive to be a wider phenomenon. I do not profess to know anything else about him.
What is with this hoarded line you like to keep spewing? I don’t accumulate gratitude, I don’t store it for future use - I create it and give it out as the situation warrants. Perhaps your baseless arguments makes you feel like some sort of humanitarian, but please, stop it - you just sound silly.
It seems quite obvious I am giving gratitude away - tell me, honestly, does it make sense to thank those who had no hand in helping you? Does it?
Your own argument that gratitude should be given away at random indicates that you must walk down the street thanking everyone constantly for not doing a thing for you. It’s a ridiculous position to hold, but feel free.
Never said they didn’t - you’ll notice, I and others have been pointing out that this views on the subject are irrational. Just because yours might happen to be irrational as well is of no concern to us.
Like I said.
[QUOTE]
You are still treating gratitude as something that runs out quickly and must therefore be hoarded.
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You’ve defeated your own argument - things with a guaranteed infinite supply have NO VALUE. If you feel gratitude towards all, you may as well have gratitude towards none. By necessarily limiting my gratitude to those that have actually helped me, I give it value - value they can appreciate.
If the sniper boy had said “I’d really like to thank Nightime for helping me pee this morning” - there would have been no value in that statement. There was no exchange of services or goods. That exchange is where gratitude gets its value - that someone puts in an effort (be it thoughts, actions, whatever) and you want to pay them back somehow - even with something as simple as “I’d do the same for you.”
Abou Ben Adhem (may his tribe increase!)
Awoke one night from a deep dream of peace,
And saw, within the moonlight in his room,
Making it rich, and like a lily in bloom,
An angel writing in a book of gold:—
Exceeding peace had made Ben Adhem bold,
And to the Presence in the room he said
“What writest thou?”—The vision raised its head,
And with a look made of all sweet accord,
Answered “The names of those who love the Lord.”
“And is mine one?” said Abou. “Nay, not so,”
Replied the angel. Abou spoke more low,
But cheerly still, and said “I pray thee, then,
Write me as one that loves his fellow men.”
The angel wrote, and vanished. The next night
It came again with a great wakening light,
And showed the names whom love of God had blessed,
And lo! Ben Adhem’s name led all the rest.
I guess your position makes sense if you think of your “gratitude” as a limited quantity in a zero sum game, and something to be meted out in considered proportion to each individual you encounter in proportion to how much he or she has benefited you personally. If that’s the case, I join Nightime in pitying you.
Well, yep, that’s pretty much how it works out - gratitude is an exchange of thanks for services or effort provided, period.
Do tell - honest answer - if I walked up to you on the street and said “Doghouse, I just want to thank you helping me poop this morning - great job!” - would you smile and think to yourself “Happy to help, old boy!” - would you?
If so, you’re a nut.
If not, you realize that gratitude is in exchange for something.
Now, why don’t you and Nightime run off and pat each other on the back and feel smug?
As long as we’re going to bring up logical fallacies, I should point out that your entire “argument” is a false dilemma fallacy. There are more options than “gratitude is very limited and thanking more than one person for helping you lessens your gratitude to each” or “gratitude is given away infinitely and randomly to everyone.” Well, there are for most people at least…
Ogre, I’d just like to take a minute to thank you for helping me to drink those three India pale ales I had at dinner with the wife tonight. I know, I know, you weren’t there - and, in fact, you were 1400 miles away - but I want to thank you for your help.
I trust my gratitude is appreciated and that you don’t think I’m a nut.
All I’ve said is that you should thank those who demonstrably help you and that gratitude is in limited supply since one must choose to make it and feel it sincerely - nothing more. It’s not a bottomless supply for me and isn’t handed out like candy - to do so would lessen its value to those who receive it.
If I told you that I had an epiphany that every day I live is a gift, pure and simple, and that I’m also grateful for your part in it, super_head, would you consider that nuts? I’m genuinely interested in your answer.
We can debate who or what you believe or who or what I believe is responsible for that gift, but the fact the remains that every time you draw breath you ought to be thankful for it–thankful for the people who made it possible, thankful for the people who make it worthwhile, and thankful (if you believe in that sort of thing) to the author who made everything you experience, including yourself.
I suspect that nearly dying can make you grateful for everything, with more than enough gratitude to go around. So you don’t need to worry about the doctors feeling cheated. Once you have that kind of joy in simply living, you won’t have to treat “gratitude” as the kind of grudging barter you seem to now. Hope you get there some day.
Nightime, your entire “argument” is based on the idea that gratitude should be based on no service at all…and furthermore assigned to a being you have no proof had anything to do with it.
Now, if I were similarly disposed to take cheap psychological potshots, I might say I pity your constant need and gullibility, but I won’t because nothing we’ve said in this thread deserves a personal attack. So how 'bout we keep it polite?
Hear that, super_head? Doghouse thinks he’s even remotely qualified to believe you’re a spiritual toddler! Aren’t you just ever so grateful? :rolleyes:
Yes, I’d probably consider that a bit off-kilter, but free country. I see no reason to be thankful for everyone in the world, as a fair number of them are quite evil in nature and make life worse for the rest of us. I would wager most of us, except for those with some sort of attention disorder, go through our lives only worrying about those we know until we are called upon to worry about others by circumstance (e.g. everything from someone holding a door for us to seeing a tragic car wreck).
Possibly, or it could leave you like my mother, still fairly bitter about life and people. Anecdotes are great.
If it involves nearly dying, I’ll pass, thanks. And like I’ve said, gratitude freely given for nothing is not worth anything - if I give you a car for free, it only has value because of a) an emotional exchange between us or b) others have to pay for it. If I give you a brick covered in poop out of hatred, I doubt you’d assign it much value. Gratitude has value out of simple economics.
I realize I’m just a spiritual toddler who has never faced death, so I’m just gonna crawl back into my crib now and go to sleep. And thank you for helping me sleep, even though you have nothing to do with it - hey, look, gratitude without value.
Ah. Now we come to the real issue here. Of course there is nothing wrong with thanking God. And of course it does not take any gratitude away from the doctors! Gratitude simply doesn’t work that way. It is an absurd argument, and I am glad you have abandoned it.
Your real argument is that God does not exist, and that therefore he should not be thanked. Now perhaps you can tell us why it is bad to thank God, even if he didn’t exist? Who does it hurt?
Why are you so adamant that he shouldn’t thank God, regardless of his existence? It can’t be because you think God is getting credit he doesn’t deserve, because you are assuming that there is no God. And it can’t be that you think thanking God is decreasing the gratitude for the doctors, because we have established that that is not the way gratitude works. So what is the problem again?
Oh, and super_head? Keep those false dilemmas coming. It is fun to watch your steadfast conviction that you must choose between rationing off your limited potential gratitude or you must emit gratitude randomly. Maybe I can use you as an example of how not to argue in my logic class.
