Good day~!
After reading an article concerning Lilith i was astonished to know that the entire story of Lilith was not told. For those of you who do not know it, its one of the most logical /illogical and ponderous religous stories i have ever run across.
It appears that peridoicly a great creature shall open its eyes. It sees nothing and goes to sleep once more. Well, one time when it opened its eyes there was a great flash of lightening. There stood his sons and daughters. The main brothers of the story, however, are Jehova and Lucifer. All the brothers and sisters created their own worlds with their own gardens, and the most beautiful of the gardens was Jehova’s. It goes downhill from there involving Adam, his 1st wife Lilith, his 3rd wife Eve, Lucifer, and the banishment for Lilith, Adam, and Eve from the garden of eden, but not entirely for eating from the first tree. But in fear that they would eat from the second. =].
Anyone wish to comment?
I have no idea where your information is coming from.
A good, accurate, reference on the Lilith story can be found here. Your take on Lilith is nowhere in it.
give us a link!
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“To Reign in Hell” by Steven Brust
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“Job; A Comedy of Justice” by Robert Heinlein.
Read these two books. Write a 20 page report comparing and contrasting their styles and treatment of J/C mythology. Bibliography to be in AAA style. Expect a quiz at the end of this thread.
I have a copy of the Heinlein book. The above does seem to bare similarity to the Job story wherein God and Satan being brothers and lesser to a much greater God.
/hijack
Satan talking to the protaganist about therapy for those landing up in hell is a stitch, as were his comments about not attending armegeddon
end hijack/
This sounds a like a variation on the One True Religion as revealed in the first Chapter of The Silmarillion.
Dave’s not here, man…
This is like Ainulindalëhow?**
That is,
This is like Ainulindalë how?
One “much greater god” over dueling brother gods?
Well, this is the first time since the Sandman books that I’ve heard any more about this second wife of Adam (between Lilith and Eve). I had always wondered if Gaiman got it from somewhere…
I don’t know what you’re reading and smoking, but, according to my understanding of the Bible and the Christian religion, God has no brothers and Lucifer was simply an angel of great standing who felt he could be equal to God and was consigned to hell.
The story of Lilith is in the apocrypha, books about the main people and beings in the Bible, but not to be declared to have the ‘inspiration from God’ that the books declared canon have. Some apocrypha clearly fall in the realm of farie tales, or are way too inconsistent with the accounts in the canon. Others, such as The Maccabees, was this close to being canon but were left out. The Maccabees is a good read, and any serious Bible or Torah student should read it for the account of the Jews circa the third century, during the time of Alexander. The Macabees in addition has the account of the origins of Hanukah.
There was, and probably still is, a movement in Judaism to declare that Yahweh had a wife equal in stature as Hera had in Greek Mythology, before Zeus was declared more powerful. However, this form of an egalitarian system of male and female godhood was not established in mainstream Judaism, nor was it established in Christianity.
Lucifer, now Satan the Devil, is the angel who rebelled against his creator. He was not cast into Hell after the first sin. God humored his lies at first, in order to humorously show Satan that he was wrong. The book of Job was about such a banter and the rammifications of it.
Jean Grey:
He always gets his stuff from somewhere. That middle wife comes from an obscure Midrash. I’ll look up the exact one tonight, if you’d like.
capacitor:
And no wonder…Judaism maintains that G-d has no physical aspect, so the idea that G-d is either male or female (much less one of each, which would also violate the monotheistic principle of Judaism!) is alien. (The male pronoun is used for G-d simply as a grammatical issue, since there is no “it” in the Hebrew language.)
Chaim Mattis Keller
CMKeller: << Judaism maintains that G-d has no physical aspect, so the idea that G-d is either male or female (much less one of each, which would also violate the monotheistic principle of Judaism!) is alien. >>
Agreeing and adding the footnote that the concept does appear from time to time in obscure and non-mainstream thoughts or writings, such as the Kabalah which assigns Aspects to God, some of which are masculine (phallic) and some are … uh… pheminine.
On the “third” wife of Adam, between Lilith and Eve: Sigh. When we researched Lilith, we saw some stuff about the third wife and decided that was TOO far afield… and TOO esoteric/remote. You start to dig into some of the minor midrash and wilder stories, you get … well… stuff like a masculine God and a feminine counterpart. Every religion has its crackpots, and Judaism has been around for longer than most, so has had lots of small crackpot splinter groups over the centuries. (No, Zev, I didn’t class Reform Judaism in that category!)
[Edited by CKDextHavn on 08-15-2000 at 04:48 PM]
assuming the hypotheses about yahweh’s female consort are true, the figure in question was asherah–the hebrew/israelite equivalent of astarte (the consort of the canaanite el). she is often represented by a tree flanked by two goats, and there is a fair amount of archaeological evidence indicating belief in her. i’ve also seen a christian mosaic on mt. nebo that i would be willing to believe involves some sort of asherah tradition.
lilith was suppposedly the first wife of adam, who left because he tried to rape her. she lived as a strange bird-like creature in the desert and was later believed to eat babies.
Foolsguinea, my interpretation of part of the original topic was that of a number of brother and sister god-creators, some rivals and some allies, all subservient to the Supreme Being, like the Valar are to Iluvatar. Since you name the book in the original Quenya, I assume that you are Orthodox. I apologise if I offended you.
Hey, lay off the Lilith bashing. I have a Venus of Willendorf statue and a statue of the Mother Goddess from Catal Hoyuk. Lilith is the early Hebrew name of this persona. How about a little respect for a deity that has been around for 20,000 years. This baby-killing stuff is pure propaganda, on the same lines as using Christian babies’ blood for rituals.
Thanks, Lilah, I was going to mention her if no one else did. It is my understanding that El and Asherah were two of the original deities (along with Baal) that the whole religion grew from. Or branched off from.
Chaim, yes, I would like to read more about the un-named second wife of Adam. Thanks.