First, please name an instance of a US President asking God to bless the US only. Failure to do so will be interpreted as an admission that you pulled it out of your ass.
Second, a good third or more of your posts are excoriations of the “US-ers” for not understanding Islamic/Arab culture, and condemning us for our actions in light of that lack. So where exactly do you get off condemning US culture, of which you are not a part and of which, to say the least, you neither understand nor appreciate?
Third, Merry Christmas, Opal!
Regards,
Shodan
PS -
Well, not exactly. The document originally setting up the USA was the Declaration of Independence, which makes mention of people being “endowed by their Creator” with rights. Yes, I know it doesn’t have the force of law, but that is mostly the point. We can invoke the blessing of God on our country and our endeavors without becoming a theocracy. Most of us believe in God; most of us want God to help and to guide us. So we ask Him to, as did most of our Founding Fathers.
My comment was about how it comes across outside the USA, not meaning: “Arab or Muslim outside only”. There is no adding of “only” needed for giving this impression.
And while giving a comment may automatically hold “condemnation” into it in your way of giving comments, that doesn’t necessarely mean that you can project that mindset onto others present on this message board.
You aren’t Spanish, Italian, French, German, Russian, Chinese, Japanese, British, Brazilian, etc. Yet you are speaking on behalf of cultures to which you do not belong and do not understand, while condemning the US for doing the same. Why?
You have claimed that the phrase “God bless America” is “ignorant” and “arrogant”, and justifies non-Americans in assuming that American culture is backwards and evil. But now you are claiming that this is not “condemnation”.
OK, Aldebaran - your posts are arrogant and ignorant. They should be used to justify the conclusion that Arabic and Islamic culture is backwards and evil.
But I am not condemning you. Stop twisting what I say!
Why doesn’t GWB end his updates on military progress in Iraq with “Allah bless Iraq”?
I’ll tell you why. It’ll offend a huge constituency that believes that the US is the only place the president should be asking for a blessing. It’s all politics to appease narrow-gate theologians that believe that only Conservative Christians who speak English in America are on God’s side. Why do you think the US Churches send out so many missionaries? There is a large number of Americans that believe the USA is the best and God, being the best, must have a special place in his White Old Man’s heart for the good ol’ USA.
If you get a chance, look up the teeshirts which spell it out clearly. Red White and Blue with the following logo:
I think I’m going to order a few thousand of these convincing items and let them be distributed in Arab streets.
Question of educating those dumb Arabs for their own good, insh’allah…
One should also distribute them immediately in all over Iraq. Question of making it finally and absolute clear to those dumb Iraqis that the US isn’t there to get a firm hold on their natural resources, but to save them. (They should learn that once and for all, it’s about time. So pitty thousands are already killed and can’t be informed anymore about that)
A looked a bit further on that remarkable website… Besides the US-flag-including items, they have also some rather sadistic inspired items, like “His pain is your gain” and “Fit for a king”…
Which make me wonder a bit… But that is something to create an other thread about
Perhaps you were aware that “Allah” is the Arabic for “God”.
Isn’t it funny, then, that so many Presidents, from both parties, used the same phrase?
Let me see if I understand - you allege that the only thing stopping George Bush from speaking positively about Islam is that he will offend his constituencies. Is that right?
Yep, you’ve honed in on it like a laser. That’s the only reason why Bush doesn’t end his speeches that way. He wants to, but he’s afraid of offending that all-powerful “huge constituency”.**
Yep, that’s what narrow-gate theologians believe, all right. Liberal Christians, English-speaking Britons, Conservative Jews, Christians in other countries–none of them are on God’s side, according to those narrow-gate theologians. **
Well, of course. Anyone who likes the United States is racist and believes God is white. Thank you for pointing this out to us. We bow to your superior morality.
It may be true that the President’s are making use of their First Amendment right to the freedom of religion and speech, and although its acceptable as an argument, its a bit shaky, since during an official press conference or speech, the President is an extension of the executive branch of the U.S. government, not an individual.
You may be familiar with the Pledge of Allegiance no longer being required in public schools because it has the word ‘God.’ This matter seems pretty trivial considering the last time I took the pledge was in elementary school, and I face the word ‘God’ far more times on official government documents every day of my life. U.S. Treasury notes and coins are laden with the word ‘God.’ When I asked my history teacher, she responded that one doesn’t have to use Treasury notes. While I could surely use one of my many credit cards or checks without ever touching a dollar bill, the fact remains that the U.S. Department of the Treasury issues notes with a flagrant use of the word ‘God.’
The Declaration of Independence set up exactly nothing. It was as its name suggests, a declaration of independence- basically a declaration of war and rebellion and a justification of such actions. The Declaration of Independence preceeds the Constitution and the Bill of Rights- the documents that allow for the division of church and state, so for all it matters, it could’ve quoted the Bible, created a theocratic government among the colonies, and then been sequentially dissolved to be replaced by the Articles of Confederation, and we would still be in the same position we are now.
Oh, yes. The humor is not lost on me. The point of the matter is there is a large constituency of people all over the political spectrum who are interested in hearing the president reaffirm their American Chauvanism. It’s a phenomenon that is well documented and seems to follow along various social class and educational lines in this country. If you don’t believe me, look at some Annenberg poll data.
Nope. Didn’t say that at all. It is in GWB’s interest to speak positively about Islam but it is NOT in his interest to say “Allah Bless Iraq”. Period. The rest is simply beating a dead straw horse.
Nope. An example does not an assertion make. Perhaps if you paid a little closer attention? Nah, that’d be asking too much.
a) Christianity as practiced my many in the school I was describing does have a historical racist bent. Look up Christian Identity religions for an example. God is pictured as an “Old White Man” in many depictions. That’s the way it goes. Sorry.
b) I am glad you have enlightened me to situations where logical fallacies suddenly become acceptable argumentation. Here I had thought that they were problematic, but I guess when you disagree as heartily as you do with me then it becomes acceptable. Thanks, I remain forever in your debt.
They taught Christian Identity in your school? Man, that is f***ed up.
Oh, I see, you are drawing parallels where none exist: Kids in your school who were Christians were white. Christian Identity groups (which are, by definition racist, white-supremacist assholes) are white. Ergo, Christians are racist.
Mr Goose, meet Mr. Gander. Mr. Pot, I’d like to introduce you to Ms. Kettle.
